Kinder anti-feedback

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Kinder anti-feedback

Postby jbone1 » Sun Jul 20, 2008 4:13 pm

i messaged a pro the other night to ask what tube compliment he uses in his bassman. thought i'd hit upa pro to get more on track with this bassman i just got. the answer was pretty surprising- he stayed with the 12ax7 in all 3 pre amp slots! but he told me he used a Kinder anti-feedback box and a compression device, and the bassman worked great for him.

i just looked at the Kinder site and the price on that box is up there. if by some miracle i could afford one, i am wondering if anyone here has used one and how they liked it? effect on tone is the top[ question i have.

thanks guys and gals!
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby bottleneck » Sun Jul 20, 2008 8:29 pm

i too usually keep 12ax7's in there because,even though i am more known as a harmonica player,i play guitar through the same amp.for harp
i use a boss nf-1 noise gate to cut feedback.it doesn't really effect tone,it just cuts the signal off when you're not playing.i've used this pedal since the 80's with no problems.if you have feed back with this setup ,it is not your fault,the drummer is too loud.

i am inderested in the kinder pedal,but can't find one anywhere.do you have a link to their site?

http://www.myspace.com/shakeylyman (the first song has boss noise gate between bullet and amp)
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby jbone1 » Mon Jul 21, 2008 10:46 pm

thanks bottleneck, something else to consider........preciate it man!!
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby bottleneck » Mon Jul 21, 2008 11:40 pm

ok,i found the knder site.looks like he could build it into your amp for over a hundred dollars less than the pedal.

hovever,there is a possibility the kinder AFB pedal is simply a noise gate with a tone control.i would like someone to correct me if they know otherwise.maybe it is more like a furman AFB,or the anti-feedback built into some acoustic amps.

it would be nice if someone knew for sure.
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby MakaInOz » Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:16 am

There's been a fair bit of discussion recently over on harpgroups about the relative merits of using a Kinder AFB+ (apparently the 'plus' means it does more than just anti feedback - there is some delay/compression capability/options at lower volume settings) versus the HarpCommander (I, II or III) if you are off to a gig and have to use an unknown amp and/or PA when you get there.

The general consensus seemed to be that the Kinder AFB+ is probably the more useful in that scenario. I've not seen a Kinder in action but I have seen a couple of well known Aussie pros that use HarpCommander and I was impressed with the utility of the HC to dial in some harp-useful tone into an unknown (guitar) amp. The Kinder must be pretty good to be more useful than that. Apparently it is a very low production unit, with some 'difficulty' in communications with the man himself. Everyone that had one agreed it was worth the wait, but apparently the chances of picking one up second hand are slim to nil.

Note I own neither (but would like both!!), and am merely summarising discussions from a different group FYI.
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby Fishfeathersmacteeth » Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:03 am

...this is an interesting thread...

..just goes to show that there is more than one way to skin a cat.. :lol:
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby jbone1 » Tue Jul 22, 2008 10:45 am

when you get down to it, i'd rather not even mess with yet another gadget. i think we can definitely get gearitis easily looking for tone plus volume. this amp has already given me more of that than i've ever had previously. and the wallet has a say here too!

having just dropped a serious chunk of change for this new bassman, of course i'm leery of committing more $$ to gear. this all started with looking for a good tube compliment to cut feedback and get volume, and i found a good way to go that did boost volume and retain tone, as evidenced when i took my stuff out to a jam last week. if i were gigging with an electric band i might be more prone to step up and add something like the harp commander or the kinder. as it is, 95% of my current music is played acoustically or at low volume with a small tube amp. and we never turn up to the point of feedback.

but i like to know what's out there, how people like it, and just what the possibilities are!

i remember getting my first hot rod, an old chevy truck with a lot of horses under the hood. i was really something. until everyone started putting nitrous kits under the hoods of their mustangs. which i could neither justify nor afford!

i'm using 12au7, 12ax7, and 12au7 as my pre amp configuration. and i actually had to drop the volume at my mic the other night, with 2 guitars on stage! so this was more about being curious than looking to spend any more $$ any time soon. still, now i have a bit more info to consider when the time comes!
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby harpdude » Fri Jul 25, 2008 10:47 pm

I've got an old Rocktron "MicroHush" that really works well for feedback control. I'll try and get a video clip of it at work. Too bad someone hasn't used this circuit for a new , more affordable, anti-feedback unit.....hmmmmmm.

Oh yeah, I've just started a new page for myself over at Reverb Nation. Drop on by and check out the tunes and photos. Most of the photos so far are from some blues cruises I went on. I'll be adding more tunes and photos regularly. Here's the link:

http://www.reverbnation.com/harpdude

I'll let ya's know when I get the MicroHush clip done if anyone's interested.
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby ipray2hp » Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:24 pm

I play through a Fender Bassman and have for years ... I purchased the Anti-Feedback + from John over 6 months ago ... I gig very frequently in the Atlanta area and around the southeast ... I am so pleased with this peice of equipment I could just crap. I have the Harp Commander III, the BBE Two Timer, a BBE Sonic Maximizer, a Boss CE-5, a Boss BD2 Blues Driver, a Boss RV-5 Reverb and the Kinder Anti-Feedback Eliminator in my pedalboard ... it absolutely rocks !!! I can get all the gain I want or need from the vintage Fender Bassman with absolutely no feedback from any volume level. No one on stage can cover up the harp breaks and I can run all the fills and stay in the background with the same quality at the lower db's ... I would encourage any harp player to purchase this pedal ... the only negative i had with the pedal when delivered was it only has 1 option for power (two 9 volt batteries) (:-( ... not cool John ... I use an I-Spot power supply and notched a small notch in the pedal and use the two 9 volt attachments that come with the I-spot to feed power to the unit now ... it is flippin off the chain everything I can do with my processing now, only because of the Kinder ... I could not get anywhere near the gain or volume before feedback before I purchased this pedal ... you can call me "one satified customer ... only one huge drawback ... John is over 70 years old and builds the components for this unit in his shop ... he may not build them much longer (:-(
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby bottleneck » Tue Apr 05, 2011 4:58 am

oh,great to see this old thread from before i owned one.my own comments seem funny now.

my wife bought me one as a present.i would not go back.yes,it is worth it.

www.myspace.com/shakeylyman
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby gheumann » Wed Apr 06, 2011 4:02 am

I just can't see using a bassman with 3 12AX7's, then buying bandaids to tame it. I see ZERO benefit. All you have is an amp with a harsh razor-edge feedback threshold.

The simplest, cost effective and powerful solution is to reduce the amp's gain through tube substitution. Reducing gain need not compromise tone, reduce power or have any other negative effects. Having 3 12AX7's is like driving a 400Hp sports car with 1/2" of throttle pedal travel. Reducing to more manageable gain STILL gives you quiet idle AND 400 HP at full throttle, but is more like driving the same car with 6" of pedal travel. Much easier to drive. It makes the feedback threshold soft and manageable. You only need enough gain to get you to max usable power with the knobs turned way up and a large signal from your mic. Anything more works against you.

I continue to believe that you need NOTHING in the way of noise gates, anti-feed back boxes, EQ's or anything else to get lots of volume out of a properly set up amp for harp. I don't have feedback problems and I play in very, very loud out of control jam environments. I plug my mic straight into my amp.
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby jbone1 » Wed Apr 06, 2011 5:19 am

fwiw, i changed my tube configuration. 12ax7 in p1, 12 au7 in p2 and p3. this has allowed me to bring the volume up a lot and not lose tone. i also jumped the normal and hot channels to get better breakup. the idea is to let the pre amp drive the circuit at its potential and then tame the gain down at p2 and p3 to lessen feedback. for me it seems to be a good solution.
i use one of 3 mics- an e-v m43u modded by greg to high z, with a volume pot, a ruskin crystal mic with volume pot, or a 707a with a good hot cm element but no vc. any of the 3 mics preforms well but i find the crystal to have a lot less bottom end response and so it gets duty in more swing or jazz settings while the modded dynamic and cm mics get more straight up blues usage.
part of the equation for me is finding the best settings on the amp console re high, mid, low, presence, etc. different rooms and different bands require different settings to get the most out of the amp and mic at the time.

thanks all for your input on the afb. when i hit the lotto i'll become a mad sound scientist and mess with more gadgets.
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby bottleneck » Wed Apr 06, 2011 1:36 pm

i understand what greg is saying,and i'm glad you found good tube subs.BUT with the kinder one no longer has to put much effort into good sound or feedback rejection.you can make most any amp sound like a good harp amp.no joke.

even though for me it was a gift,if i had to do it over again i'd sell a couple harp mics and get one.and i never sell anything.

www.myspace.comshakeylyman
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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby Cincinnati Slim » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:08 pm

gheumann wrote:I just can't see using a bassman with 3 12AX7's, then buying bandaids to tame it. I see ZERO benefit. All you have is an amp with a harsh razor-edge feedback threshold.

The simplest, cost effective and powerful solution is to reduce the amp's gain through tube substitution. Reducing gain need not compromise tone, reduce power or have any other negative effects. Having 3 12AX7's is like driving a 400Hp sports car with 1/2" of throttle pedal travel. Reducing to more manageable gain STILL gives you quiet idle AND 400 HP at full throttle, but is more like driving the same car with 6" of pedal travel. Much easier to drive. It makes the feedback threshold soft and manageable. You only need enough gain to get you to max usable power with the knobs turned way up and a large signal from your mic. Anything more works against you.

I continue to believe that you need NOTHING in the way of noise gates, anti-feed back boxes, EQ's or anything else to get lots of volume out of a properly set up amp for harp. I don't have feedback problems and I play in very, very loud out of control jam environments. I plug my mic straight into my amp.


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Re: Kinder anti-feedback

Postby FDRGreg » Fri Feb 17, 2012 2:20 am

ipray2hp wrote:I play through a Fender Bassman and have for years ... I purchased the Anti-Feedback + from John over 6 months ago ... I gig very frequently in the Atlanta area and around the southeast ... I am so pleased with this peice of equipment I could just crap. I have the Harp Commander III, the BBE Two Timer, a BBE Sonic Maximizer, a Boss CE-5, a Boss BD2 Blues Driver, a Boss RV-5 Reverb and the Kinder Anti-Feedback Eliminator in my pedalboard ... it absolutely rocks !!! I can get all the gain I want or need from the vintage Fender Bassman with absolutely no feedback from any volume level. No one on stage can cover up the harp breaks and I can run all the fills and stay in the background with the same quality at the lower db's ... I would encourage any harp player to purchase this pedal ... the only negative i had with the pedal when delivered was it only has 1 option for power (two 9 volt batteries) (:-( ... not cool John ... I use an I-Spot power supply and notched a small notch in the pedal and use the two 9 volt attachments that come with the I-spot to feed power to the unit now ... it is flippin off the chain everything I can do with my processing now, only because of the Kinder ... I could not get anywhere near the gain or volume before feedback before I purchased this pedal ... you can call me "one satified customer ... only one huge drawback ... John is over 70 years old and builds the components for this unit in his shop ... he may not build them much longer (:-(


Hey ipray2hp ... I'm in West Atlanta. Trying to get more hands on info with this kinder pedal. I'm playing usually straight into a 40w Fender Blues Deluxe RI but occasionally use a Bad Monkey Overdrive. I have made preamp tube changes but trying to maximize my volume playing with some very very loud guitar players these days. I sure would love to talk with you about the antifeedback pedal some time. I will buy one if it really buys me a lot more headroom and overall output volume against everyone else in the band. I will continue to mike the amp when needed but this pedal sounds promising and I'd like to take a first hand look at one or at least talk with you about it. My name is Greg and email is gregory.bates@ymail.com. GREAT SITE here ... It'd be great to talk with another fellow harp player here in Atlanta too ... thanks!
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