new Fender Champion 600 good for harp?

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new Fender Champion 600 good for harp?

Postby pentatone » Tue Jan 23, 2007 8:26 am

I´ve seen the new Fender Champion 600 demoed in the internet and I´m asking myself if it could be a good harp amp - particularly at this price . I´m sceptical because of the 6" speaker.

How do you experts consider it?


http://www.gearwire.com/fender-champ-600-wnamm.html[/quote]
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Postby jeffl » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:18 pm

Yeah,it could be a great harp amp,although limited. It's patterned after the early Champs, and if the 6" isn't any tinnier than the 8" it'd be alright. Who knows,maybe it's got better low end response than the original Champs.... As far as its low wattage, the only real drawback would be in using it on stage; even though you can mic it up into the mains,it won't have enough power to cut through the stage mix from behind you if the band is playin' at normal club volumes,and most musicians don't like harp comin' through monitors in front of 'em. If you've got enough monitor board to dial the harp outa everybody else's monitor,except for a bleed, you'd prob'ly be OK. Those things will be sittin' in every music store that carries Fender,'cuz they're cool and inexpensive enough for a parent to buy his kid, so they'll be around to try out. I always like to try out harp amps in remote areas of the store,so I can crank 'em up a little.
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Postby dcblues » Tue Jan 23, 2007 1:23 pm

I f you try it and it sounds right for you, it's a good amp. If it doesn't, buy something else.
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Postby thebluesbox » Wed Jan 24, 2007 1:19 am

Its prolly just as much of a cute little practice amp as a nifty fifty by danelectro.

If you want cheap and thats all your worried about this would polly suit you just like a nifty would, this one has the advantage of tubes where the little nifty is SS.

But if you want the sound all harp players are looking for you need to go with something old and vintage. A lot of people dont like to hear this but I have proved it to myself to be true, most of the time these new punchy hot amps are not good for harp. Anything I have bought from the 60's like harmony, gibson, bogen, silvertone ....... thats the MOJO Tone hands down.

Now granted you can get some cool sounds from all these newer amps but there is nothing like the sweet spot of a vintage amp. Too many people want a great harp rig for 10 bucks, that will never happen. Dust off the duckies and get you something that has proven to be a good harp amp and you will be satisfied. Like The Blues Box Amps :-) They RocK !
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Postby ricochet » Wed Jan 24, 2007 3:38 pm

Yeah, new amps from the big makers are aimed at guitarists, and the main difference I see from the older ones is that they've gone up on the gain.

Like that little Valve Junior, that's basically just like the little amps made for lap steels and guitar practice amps from the '40s and '50s, except that it's set up to hit maximum volume when the knob's somewhere around halfway up, any turning past that just progressively overdriving the second section of the 12AX7 more and more. Keep that volume knob down to the halfway point or below, and it really is like a little vintage amp. Crank it up and you'll hear something you wouldn't hear out of the little old amps.
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Postby barbequebob » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:15 pm

jeffl wrote:Yeah,it could be a great harp amp,although limited. It's patterned after the early Champs, and if the 6" isn't any tinnier than the 8" it'd be alright. Who knows,maybe it's got better low end response than the original Champs.... As far as its low wattage, the only real drawback would be in using it on stage; even though you can mic it up into the mains,it won't have enough power to cut through the stage mix from behind you if the band is playin' at normal club volumes,and most musicians don't like harp comin' through monitors in front of 'em. If you've got enough monitor board to dial the harp outa everybody else's monitor,except for a bleed, you'd prob'ly be OK. Those things will be sittin' in every music store that carries Fender,'cuz they're cool and inexpensive enough for a parent to buy his kid, so they'll be around to try out. I always like to try out harp amps in remote areas of the store,so I can crank 'em up a little.


Actally, the Champion 600 preceeded the Champs around the late 40's top early 50's, and is one the amps that the Pro Junior's sound is based on and those amps often didn't have a tone control and just a volume control.
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Postby jeffl » Wed Jan 24, 2007 10:29 pm

I'm willin' to accept limitations of different kinds with any amp, if I generally like it enough. I've got a '78 Silverface Champ (unmodded) that ain't exactly the most sought after Champ, but I jus' crank it up with a little delay,and nobody gives a darn that it ain't a blackface or tweed. I love playin' thru it. If you got decent tone to begin with, you'll sound alright with alotta amps. So,it's back to what dcb said, with room for subjective opinions.
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Postby barbequebob » Thu Jan 25, 2007 5:41 pm

jeffl wrote: If you got decent tone to begin with, you'll sound alright with alotta amps. So,it's back to what dcb said, with room for subjective opinions.


Now that's the cold, hard, brutal truth!!!!
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Postby thebluesbox » Fri Jan 26, 2007 12:44 am

it all boils down to what your personal taste is and I get sick of seeing the long drown out discussions even arguements sometimes about an amp being an amp no matter what size color or make. Yes a good player can sound good on any amp from a little smokey to a bassman and anything in between. But most of the times when these topics start thats not the question at all, I think most people have beaten this dead horse into a 2nd death.

The question most of the time is, 'Do you think such n such a good harp amp?'

Then there we go...................

Some people dont mind playing on a louder cleaner sounding amp.
Some people dont mind playing on a louder dirty sounding amp.
Some people dont mind playing on a low wattage clean sounding amp.
Some people dont mind playing on a low wattage dirty sounding amp.
Some people dont mind playing on anything as long as it has a speaker.

So its like car audio, there is a million and one types of car rigs with a million and one types of sounds and features, what one person will like another might not like, but they may all sound good to begin with.

The fact is some amps are more harp friendly then others, the fact is some amps do sound better with harp then others, the fact is some amps dont sound good with harp compaired to others and most people will agree on that but what suits one person wont always suit another and thats the bottom line.

My personal searches have lead me to love the sound and playability of a low wattage vintage amp because you can crank it high and get good mellow toned distortion out of it with out blowing your house down other gigging musicians may want to use a 4x10 bassman so that they wont have to be miked to a PA but hey if thats what they want go for it, I would rather mike a small jammin little amp because they have the sound I like. And yes the sound first comes from me sounding good then the amp makes it twice as nice if its got good gritty tone and that my friends is just my personal observation over the years it may help some people in thier searches or it may not but its there for the using and its just an opinion just like everyone else.
Cheers!
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Postby jeffl » Fri Jan 26, 2007 1:09 pm

Way to beat that horse,bluesbox,lol!
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Postby thebluesbox » Fri Jan 26, 2007 11:17 pm

ok so im guilty of being a dead beater LOL............. im just trying to counter blance the 2 sides of this topic.

power to the people, the dead beater people lol !
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Postby jeffl » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:18 pm

bluesbox, we've rehashed topics many times around here but alot of our current members weren't around when we prob'ly did it the last time, so there's always a benefit to somebody; and, if the old-timers here don't wanna jump in, they jus' ignore the post,so it's no sweat.
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Postby thebluesbox » Sat Jan 27, 2007 1:48 pm

Nothing wrong with that, we do it at The Blues Box as well, I dont mean that I hate the topics themselves. I just thought I would get real opinionated on this one, because I do believe the amp does make your sound somewhat I dont care what your level of playing if your playing because the amp has 50% of what your playing the other 50% is your tone. And too many people leave out the amps 50 and try to make it look like its all you. Its not, its a combinatin of both, and if you got a sucky amp you will know it, just like a guitar player he will know wheather he is playing on a boogie or a nifty fifty his audience will know it as well.

Sorry I f I seemed harsh.
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Postby pentatone » Sun Jan 28, 2007 2:19 pm

bluesbox - thank you for your explanations and thoughts. It seems to be the fate of experienced people that they have to tell the same story over and over again, but see - there are always people who who join the crowd and are thankful for advising. I am a long time guitar player and have some experience with soldering amps - I own a Tweed Champ clone and a Tweed Super clone - but I came to the harp about one year ago and as far as I read the demands for harp amps are different to the demands for guitar amps but as far as I understood guitar amps can be modded to be liked by harps very well, too.
So my main question was more about the small speaker. Unfortunately here in Germany it is not so easy to find a music store whre amps can be tested so I tried to get some opinions when it comes to the 6" speaker.
Your words convince me that I´ll have to look for an exemplar to test it by myself and I´ll have to hear if I like it - that´s fine. In most cases the statement that there´s no general advice possible is a good advice, too.
Thank yopu again!
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Postby angerboy » Sun Jan 28, 2007 6:38 pm

If you own a tweed Champ clone, you've got a fabulous harp amp . If you can't get good tone out of that amp, you need to follow barbequebob's advice.
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