Which slide for my metal-band?

A discussion of techniques, and equipment for guitar. Fretted, bottleneck or slide, acoustic or electric, this is the place.

Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby hoog » Fri Apr 01, 2011 12:04 pm

First post :)

Alright, so I'd like to include some slide-guitar in my metal-band's music...
I realize this is a blues forum, but we have quite a heavy blues influence (I also play harp in that band), so I hope I'm not out of line.
I should point out I know almost nothing about guitars (although the band's guitar player helps me out a bit), so I'm asking you guys for advice!

Here are my constraints:
1/ I'll need to play standing up, but not with the guitar around my neck (hope that's clear...). So the guitar would rest on a support-structure of some kind.
2/ We tune in C or A#, depending on the songs, which is probably lower than the usual slide-guitar.

And these are my questions:
1/ Which type of guitar (and I'm using guitar in the wide sense here) should I get?
2/ Which type of strings should I get (from what I understand, that's a crucial question as soon as you go into lower tunings)?
3/ Can I play both tunings on the same combination of guitar and strings, or do I need two guitars?

Thank you very much for any advice you can give!
hoog
Regular
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Brussels

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby rustyslide » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:48 pm

A#? Like the 6th string is down 7 steps? Yikes.

C is fairly straightforward. Have a 12 string tune to C#.

3/ Can I play both tunings on the same combination of guitar and strings, or do I need two guitars?


The same guitar setup for C and A# is going to be way too slack tuned down to A#, so you're going to want to pick one or the other.

Let's just assume 'C' for now. If you have the guitar set up for C 'standard' (C F Bb Eb G C), then it's easy to tune it up to C 'vastapol' (C G C E G C).

hoog wrote:1/ Which type of guitar (and I'm using guitar in the wide sense here) should I get?


One with a fixed bridge, not a Floyd Rose or other vibrato unit. Changing tunings is much, much easier with a fixed bridge.

As for string gauges, for tuning down to 'C', I'd probably use 0.014s or 0.015s on a 24.75" scale guitar (like a Les Paul or Flying V).
User avatar
rustyslide
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1942
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:01 am
Location: Halifax, Canada

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby Stackabones » Fri Apr 01, 2011 2:50 pm

Open C tuning is common -- CGCGCE. Get some heavy strings (as heavy as you can find -- get some 7-string packs and throw away the 1st string) and tune it down a step to Bb (or A#, but there is no key of A# :wink: ). Capo on the 2nd fret for songs in C, and take the capo off for songs in Bb. You'll probably want to raise the action a bit.

Any guitar will do. Use one that feels good to you.
Stackabones
Regular
 
Posts: 64
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2011 5:50 pm

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby hoog » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:13 pm

thanks rustyslide!

rustyslide wrote:A#? Like the 6th string is down 7 steps? Yikes.
yeah, we found that some songs benefit from having a really low, aggressive-sounding tuning

rustyslide wrote:The same guitar setup for C and A# is going to be way too slack tuned down to A#, so you're going to want to pick one or the other.
that's what I was afraid of :roll:

OK, I need two guitars

rustyslide wrote:One with a fixed bridge, not a Floyd Rose or other vibrato unit. Changing tunings is much, much easier with a fixed bridge.
As for string gauges, for tuning down to 'C', I'd probably use 0.014s or 0.015s on a 24.75" scale guitar (like a Les Paul or Flying V).
so you're saying I should just go with a regular electric guitar?

do you know of any examples of people using these "standing up" (I mean like a keybaord)?
hoog
Regular
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Brussels

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby hoog » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:29 pm

thanks Stackabones!

Stackabones wrote:Get some heavy strings (as heavy as you can find -- get some 7-string packs and throw away the 1st string).
very useful advice, thanks!

Stackabones wrote:but there is no key of A# :wink:
my theory lessons were a long time ago :roll:

Stackabones wrote:Capo on the 2nd fret for songs in C, and take the capo off for songs in Bb. You'll probably want to raise the action a bit.
capodastre, I hadn't thought of that!

certainly cheaper than a second guitar 8)

but won't the strings be too slack?

and the raised action: is that for the capo, or just for the slide in general?

Stackabones wrote:Any guitar will do. Use one that feels good to you.
OK, that's good news

any idea on how to manage the "keyboard" setup?
hoog
Regular
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Brussels

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby Steve C » Fri Apr 01, 2011 3:59 pm

Try a lap steel on a keyboard stand. Check out the following video at 2:05...it ain't metal, but you'll get the picture...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQU6GBrabj4

Good luck!
Steve C
Regular
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:10 am

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby hoog » Fri Apr 01, 2011 4:07 pm

Steve C wrote:Try a lap steel on a keyboard stand. Check out the following video at 2:05...it ain't metal, but you'll get the picture...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQU6GBrabj4

Good luck!

that's brilliant :D

exactly what I need!

does the rest still apply with this kind of guitar (strings heavy as possible for Bb tuning, capo for C...)?
hoog
Regular
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Brussels

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby Steve C » Fri Apr 01, 2011 10:49 pm

You'll want at least a 25" scale( Asher makes them), and experiment with different string gauges...baritone, or maybe even some bass strings.
For a capo, you'd need a dobro capo...not sure how well it would work on such heavy strings though.
Another option would be a baritone guitar with a raised nut on the keyboard stand.
Steve C
Regular
 
Posts: 23
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:10 am

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby DaveG » Sat Apr 02, 2011 12:50 am

Here is another example of rockin out on a lap steel. He's using a double neck, but that could be good for what you want.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3Jp_aF1Ok

Also, check out Ben Harper. He does some heavier stuff. Here's one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZNGAR7U7hY

Keep in mind that you don't have to tune to Bb to play in Bb. You can use a different tuning. You just might not be able to play open strings.
DaveG
Regular
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:45 am
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby hoog » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:40 am

Steve C wrote:You'll want at least a 25" scale( Asher makes them), and experiment with different string gauges...baritone, or maybe even some bass strings.
For a capo, you'd need a dobro capo...not sure how well it would work on such heavy strings though.
Another option would be a baritone guitar with a raised nut on the keyboard stand.
Steve C, thanks for the technical advice, it's highly appreciated :)
hoog
Regular
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Brussels

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby hoog » Sat Apr 02, 2011 11:49 am

DaveG wrote:Here is another example of rockin out on a lap steel. He's using a double neck, but that could be good for what you want.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tr3Jp_aF1Ok
that is exactly what I need: two necks = two tunings!

thanks, DaveG!

any recommended brands or models (double neck, with at least 25'' scale, that will accept very heavy strings)?

DaveG wrote:Also, check out Ben Harper. He does some heavier stuff. Here's one:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZNGAR7U7hY
wow, that gave me the chills...

DaveG wrote:Keep in mind that you don't have to tune to Bb to play in Bb. You can use a different tuning. You just might not be able to play open strings.
I discovered that yesterday, browsing on the internet (like I said, my theory lessons were... a while ago :roll: )

but being a total beginner, tuning to Bb just seems much easier (if I can make the equipment side of things work, that is)
hoog
Regular
 
Posts: 7
Joined: Fri Apr 01, 2011 11:45 am
Location: Brussels

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby rustyslide » Sat Apr 02, 2011 3:04 pm

For a given key and no capo, it's certainly easier if the guitar is tuned to the I, IV or V.
User avatar
rustyslide
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1942
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 5:01 am
Location: Halifax, Canada

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby DaveG » Sat Apr 02, 2011 6:12 pm

Yeah, I agree. Tuning to the l, lV or V is easier, especially for a beginner. I was just pointing out that you can actually play in most keys in most tunings.

Sorry, Hoog, I don't have any recommendations for a double neck. Maybe someone else does.
DaveG
Regular
 
Posts: 120
Joined: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:45 am
Location: Redmond, WA USA

Re: Which slide for my metal-band?

Postby leftyguitarman » Sun Apr 03, 2011 8:32 pm

Stackabones wrote:and tune it down a step to Bb (or A#, but there is no key of A# :wink: )


I was gonna say.... :lol:
User avatar
leftyguitarman
Regular
 
Posts: 3183
Joined: Fri Mar 17, 2006 3:48 am
Location: Washington State


Return to Guitar

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests

cron