Walkdowns

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Walkdowns

Postby killer » Fri Dec 03, 2010 7:40 am

Hi, everyone.

Would the minor pentatonic shapes for the V and IV, respectively, work when you're coming down V-IV?

If I may--I'd like to ask if y'all would be so kind as to direct me to the correct path if this won't work.

Thank you all kindly.

:)
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby The Breeze » Sun Dec 05, 2010 3:28 pm

Not normally no. The minor pentatonic (blues scale) may work over the I - IV because the minor third becomes the b7 of the IV chord, but it is still best to start hitting the major 3rd over the I chord (or curl the minor third up to suggest the major 3rd) and using the minor 3rd to suggest the IV chord. If you want to walk down over the V - IV change I suggest using the mixolydian or major pentatonic with an added dominant 7th and 9th of the V and IV chords. There is a lot more to it than this, but it is a good starting point.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby Lo-Fi » Sun Dec 05, 2010 4:11 pm

I'm lost.

I thought this was going to be a thread about playing some seedy bar down in the basement of an old Brownstone.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby kiwiblues » Sun Dec 05, 2010 8:18 pm

Me too!!
What exactly is a walk down?
Is it a turn around? No I guess not. :?:
Lo-Fi wrote:I'm lost.

I thought this was going to be a thread about playing some seedy bar down in the basement of an old Brownstone.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby michaelm » Sun Dec 05, 2010 9:32 pm

From a V to a IV, I think that you would need a IV.5 or is that a IV.V or IV-I/II -- Sorry, I'm lost, too. Guess I'll look for Lo-Fi in that seedy 12-Bar. Or was that Bar-XII? Mixolydian Walkdown might make a good band name, though.
There is a lot more to it than this, but it is a good starting point.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby The Breeze » Sun Dec 05, 2010 10:29 pm

I've not heard of walkdown before but I guess we are talking about improvising over the V-IV chords on bars 9 and 10 of a 12 bar blues in a major key.
I`m surprised at so many comments suggesting lack of knowledge of one of the fundamentals in starting to learn blues guitar.

Killer:
The I7 and IV7 chords do not exist in diatonic harmony, the out of key notes are the b7s of each chord, the minor pentatonic of the I chord includes BOTH these notes so it is good over the I-IV change. The b3 of the scale is the b7 of the IV chord. Nail it on the change, try not to labour it during the I chord or you will have nowhere to go.
Think chord tones and tension, s'what I do.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby killer » Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:32 am

The Breeze wrote:I've not heard of walkdown before but I guess we are talking about improvising over the V-IV chords on bars 9 and 10 of a 12 bar blues in a major key.
I`m surprised at so many comments suggesting lack of knowledge of one of the fundamentals in starting to learn blues guitar.

Killer:
The I7 and IV7 chords do not exist in diatonic harmony, the out of key notes are the b7s of each chord, the minor pentatonic of the I chord includes BOTH these notes so it is good over the I-IV change. The b3 of the scale is the b7 of the IV chord. Nail it on the change, try not to labour it during the I chord or you will have nowhere to go.
Think chord tones and tension, s'what I do.


Thank you, sir--that's exactly what I meant. I've been getting away with using the 2nd and 3rd boxes for bars 9-10 but knew it was crucial to expand my range. I'll start with your suggested use of the major pentatonic.

You also touched on another weak point of mine, which was landing on the root all too often on changes. b3 on the I-IV shift--got it.

Again, many thanks. :-)
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby kiwiblues » Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:22 am

NEVER LEARNED NOTHIN ABOUT MUSIC THEORY.
I JUS' PLAY THEM BUES.
DOES MUSIC THEORY APPLY TO AFRO-AMERICAN MUSIC?

killer wrote:
The Breeze wrote:I've not heard of walkdown before but I guess we are talking about improvising over the V-IV chords on bars 9 and 10 of a 12 bar blues in a major key.
I`m surprised at so many comments suggesting lack of knowledge of one of the fundamentals in starting to learn blues guitar.

Killer:
The I7 and IV7 chords do not exist in diatonic harmony, the out of key notes are the b7s of each chord, the minor pentatonic of the I chord includes BOTH these notes so it is good over the I-IV change. The b3 of the scale is the b7 of the IV chord. Nail it on the change, try not to labour it during the I chord or you will have nowhere to go.
Think chord tones and tension, s'what I do.


Thank you, sir--that's exactly what I meant. I've been getting away with using the 2nd and 3rd boxes for bars 9-10 but knew it was crucial to expand my range. I'll start with your suggested use of the major pentatonic.

You also touched on another weak point of mine, which was landing on the root all too often on changes. b3 on the I-IV shift--got it.

Again, many thanks. :-)
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby OldWailer » Mon Dec 06, 2010 6:49 am

NEVER LEARNED NOTHIN ABOUT MUSIC THEORY.
I JUS' PLAY THEM BUES.
DOES MUSIC THEORY APPLY TO AFRO-AMERICAN MUSIC?


Only in retrospect. . . :roll:
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby Joe Sustaire » Mon Dec 06, 2010 1:16 pm

OldWailer wrote:
NEVER LEARNED NOTHIN ABOUT MUSIC THEORY.
I JUS' PLAY THEM BUES.
DOES MUSIC THEORY APPLY TO AFRO-AMERICAN MUSIC?


Only in retrospect. . . :roll:



That says it perfectly! :D

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Re: Walkdowns

Postby Old Stella » Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:04 pm

I've been teaching blues guitar for a LONG time.
People catch on quick but 9 out of 10 people start and end solos, or segments of a solo on that damn root note.
I wanna tell them 'Get the hell off it!'
I have to bite my lip and suggest that they start listening more to recordings.
And the MAIN point I try to drive home is to NOT think of a blues guitar solo as "music," but rather a voice talking, complaining, crying, or contemplating. When THAT clicks, they're off and running.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby kiwiblues » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:47 pm

That's a great comment OS.
A blues solo is definitely an instrumental version of the voice.
That's exactly why slide guitar and harmonica do it so very well. :D
Old Stella wrote:I've been teaching blues guitar for a LONG time.
People catch on quick but 9 out of 10 people start and end solos, or segments of a solo on that damn root note.
I wanna tell them 'Get the hell off it!'
I have to bite my lip and suggest that they start listening more to recordings.
And the MAIN point I try to drive home is to NOT think of a blues guitar solo as "music," but rather a voice talking, complaining, crying, or contemplating. When THAT clicks, they're off and running.
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby kiwiblues » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:49 pm

I like it :!: :lol:
OldWailer wrote:
NEVER LEARNED NOTHIN ABOUT MUSIC THEORY.
I JUS' PLAY THEM BUES.
DOES MUSIC THEORY APPLY TO AFRO-AMERICAN MUSIC?


Only in retrospect. . . :roll:
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby blueshome » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:49 pm

Walk down, walk down that lonesome road.............
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Re: Walkdowns

Postby killer » Tue Dec 07, 2010 2:34 am

kiwiblues wrote:NEVER LEARNED NOTHIN ABOUT MUSIC THEORY.
I JUS' PLAY THEM BUES.
DOES MUSIC THEORY APPLY TO AFRO-AMERICAN MUSIC?

killer wrote:
The Breeze wrote:I've not heard of walkdown before but I guess we are talking about improvising over the V-IV chords on bars 9 and 10 of a 12 bar blues in a major key.
I`m surprised at so many comments suggesting lack of knowledge of one of the fundamentals in starting to learn blues guitar.

Killer:
The I7 and IV7 chords do not exist in diatonic harmony, the out of key notes are the b7s of each chord, the minor pentatonic of the I chord includes BOTH these notes so it is good over the I-IV change. The b3 of the scale is the b7 of the IV chord. Nail it on the change, try not to labour it during the I chord or you will have nowhere to go.
Think chord tones and tension, s'what I do.


Thank you, sir--that's exactly what I meant. I've been getting away with using the 2nd and 3rd boxes for bars 9-10 but knew it was crucial to expand my range. I'll start with your suggested use of the major pentatonic.

You also touched on another weak point of mine, which was landing on the root all too often on changes. b3 on the I-IV shift--got it.

Again, many thanks. :-)


Hang on, sir--where are you coming from? There was no other way for me to ask about it. Not a lot of blues players where I'm from and it was good finding a place where I could learn a lot more than I ever could going at it alone. I apologize if theory talk is frowned upon 'round these parts: I simply could not think of another way to ask.
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