real blues VS Fake blues?......

A discussion of the blues for blues lovers and fans.

real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby farmaz » Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:44 pm

yet again i been short changed. I wont name the guilty place as alot of people seem to like it & get funny when people slag off their local pub.

Saw a sign saying "blues this friday" now i was payed on that day so i knew friday night was going to be a good night. Went there & payed the door charge, got my drink & went outside to have a smoke. There were a few guys who it turned out were freinds of this blues criminal. I over heard them saying "ow he plays better blues than Eric Clapton" I had a laugh to myself & throught Eric clapton the great blues god, the same guy that rips off robert johnson tunes & plays them in a strumming style, ow what a great blues man he is :? :shock: :roll:

Anyway later on I go back in & see a bass guitar, drums, 2 electric guitars (WTF is this?......where is the national steel guitars & broken off beerneck slides)

The 1st band set up & play 100% chicago/electric guitar muddy waters style for a solid 1hr, Everyone was going mad to this crap music, IMO howling wolf & that kinda "blues" aint real blues, i think REAL BLUES is sonhouse, fred mcdowell, skip james.

As sonhouse said in that famous interview on youtube "these people now a days take anything & call it blues, All this monkey jump music aint blues"
Never have i heard a better piece of wisdom, and thats from a delta legend.


Later on i went for another smoke & hear some "monkey jump" blues fans saying how great this band played, i had to ask them "you ever heard fred mcdowell's standing at the burying ground or son house's county farm blues" I got a blank look from 3 faces that 10 seconds ago were saying they were blues fans.

Is it just me or anyone think that the REAL blues aint played anymore & this "monkey jump music" is now what people class as blues?
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby Stackabones » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:11 pm

Are you serious? Or is this some kind of parody thread? Everyone knows that you can't find real blues outside of the Southern US. :lol:
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby farmaz » Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:49 pm

Stackabones wrote:Are you serious? Or is this some kind of parody thread? Everyone knows that you can't find real blues outside of the Southern US. :lol:


I am 100% serious, this aint NO joke.

I agree with your comment "that you can't find real blues outside of the Southern US" & too add to that comment i aint heard any real blues recorded from after 1960'ish. The last real blues man i think there was is robert pete williams.

You NEVER hear any blues men playing like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hq-uDDdgbpU
or like this - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qj7CfJMBLKA

Every so called blues night i been to in the uk i aint seen a single cone national steel guitar, most of these people that play at there nights never heard blind willie johnson except in led zepplin rip off's.

I am 100% serious with what I say btw, and as to your comment "real blues outside of the Southern US" i would take it further & say not outside the Mississippi delta.
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby Stackabones » Tue Mar 15, 2011 4:07 pm

Well, by your standards, you probably can't even find real blues inside of the Mississippi delta. :wink:

In Texas we're not too worried about playing Mississippi delta blues. We make our own kind of BBQ and don't need to go to the store or order out.
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby jeffl » Tue Mar 15, 2011 6:50 pm

farmaz, you are one narrow-minded son-of-a-gun! You got a right to your opinions, but I was playing real blues in Wisconsin when I was 16 years old and I knew very little about the traditional greats. Your definition of blues completely misses the point. It's an elitist white guy's attitude, and I don't even know what color your skin is.
There's probably lines to be drawn somewhere, but you've staked out a very small patch there, and haven't allowed for core attitude of blues to express itself except in delta form. That's too easy.
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby allanlummox » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:29 pm

I don't know anything about all that - I refer to what I play as "Blues" because it gives people an idea what to expect - people like to have an idea what to expect.

But if you have to put the Wolf and Son House in different boxes, you might get a kick out of this clip. And if you keep them in the same box, I bet you like the musical part of the performances!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUVZtGdFMMc
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby farmaz » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:46 pm

jeffl wrote:farmaz, you are one narrow-minded son-of-a-gun! You got a right to your opinions, but I was playing real blues in Wisconsin when I was 16 years old and I knew very little about the traditional greats. Your definition of blues completely misses the point. It's an elitist white guy's attitude, and I don't even know what color your skin is.
There's probably lines to be drawn somewhere, but you've staked out a very small patch there, and haven't allowed for core attitude of blues to express itself except in delta form. That's too easy.


yes i agree people like furry lewis & blind willie johnson are blues men that are not delta, levee camp workers but the rest aint much cop. Blind willie mctell done a hand full of good tunes, he plays too much rag time IMO.

yes i am white btw...... :D :wink:

can you tell me a blues man from 1960 onwards that plays like fred mcdowell?...........
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby Buffalo_Bill » Tue Mar 15, 2011 7:53 pm

Kinda like saying, only Revolutionary War veterans are real Americans. :P
Get outa my way, 'got hot stuff from da kitchen! 8)
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby jeffl » Tue Mar 15, 2011 8:34 pm

Farmaz, I'd love to sit down in a good blues bar across a table from you and have a few beers and argue about this one. I think it'd be fun.
I'm with you on yer distaste for overpolished modern blues guys like Clapton, but I think you might consider refraining from too narrow a definition of blues. By your definition, the early guys who played diddley bows strung to front porches on the cotton farm had a right to bitch about most of the guys you're worshipping. For that matter, "real" blues didn't even use instruments: most of it started with unaccompanied field hollers.
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby Neal » Tue Mar 15, 2011 10:26 pm

jeffl wrote:Farmaz, I'd love to sit down in a good blues bar across a table from you and have a few beers and argue about this one. I think it'd be fun.
I'm with you on yer distaste for overpolished modern blues guys like Clapton, but I think you might consider refraining from too narrow a definition of blues. By your definition, the early guys who played diddley bows strung to front porches on the cotton farm had a right to bitch about most of the guys you're worshipping. For that matter, "real" blues didn't even use instruments: most of it started with unaccompanied field hollers.


Achh! Music snobs! ;)

I know shit about blues, truth be told. I have my favorites, Robert Johnson, Johnny Winter, but I'd as soon listen to Kottke play bottleneck as any. We're all just one legged men in an ass-kickin' contest anyway..
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby Disciple » Wed Mar 16, 2011 1:20 am

Before "real blues" was music that didn't have a troubling label it just was........then along came the idea to categorize it so that it was marketable and that is when the snobbery began.

Having such a narrow description of something so diverse as this music is akin to despising children as if you weren't previously one.

No artist of any stripe, music, paint, sculpture you name it......can claim pure untainted virginal and divine inspiration. Some have but the bottom line is everything comes from somewhere and owes it's current state to whatever came before.

In my estimation, the thing that makes the "Blues" so flucking good is that very fact. That every nuance of this music owes it's existence to another previously committed detail. The way that Charlie Patton was inspiration to Son House and his playing changed Robert Johnson and so on and so.

Go see Samuel James if you can find him or Rick Fines up here in Canada. These guys honour the Blues in a way that can't be described here in words.

You like what you like, I hate spinach but that doesn't make it bad for me, it's not ruining vegetables everywhere, it's just part of the genre that I rarely eat.

Seasick Steve seems to be hanging around over there on Beatle Island go see him.
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby alanc » Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:32 am

What privilege for eveyone to meet the arbiter of what is 'real' and what is 'fake' !

Just an obesrvation here but...

"Saw a sign saying "blues this friday" now i was payed on that day so i knew friday night was going to be a good night. Went there & payed the door charge, got my drink & went outside to have a smoke.
IMO howling wolf & that kinda "blues" aint real blues, i think REAL BLUES is sonhouse, fred mcdowell, skip james."


Does this comment suggest that you actually went to a pub expecting to see Fred McDowell or Skip James?? :blink:
Still, if you are just trying to stir up some kind of debate, then fine, but where have you been the past 50-60 years....
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby rustyslide » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:06 pm

farmaz wrote:these people now a days take anything & call it blues, All this monkey jump music aint blues


I believe it's "monkey junk" that you're looking for.

alanc wrote:What privilege for eveyone to meet the arbiter of what is 'real' and what is 'fake' !


That gives me an idea. You win the 'newbie of the year' award, as well, by the way.

Does this comment suggest that you actually went to a pub expecting to see Fred McDowell or Skip James??


Yeah, farmaz, you're setting yourself up for disappointment if there hasn't been any real blues since 1960.
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby Ben Covington » Wed Mar 16, 2011 2:47 pm

rustyslide wrote:I believe it's "monkey junk" that you're looking for.

FWIW here's a further discussion of the term as used by SH
http://sundayblues.org/archives/390
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Re: real blues VS Fake blues?......

Postby jellyroll baker » Wed Mar 16, 2011 6:57 pm

Image

"Hey guys, that stuff you think is blues? I decided it ain't and now I'm going to complain how people don't agree with my arbitrary definition that I made up myself and didn't tell no-one about!"

Anyhow, if you're looking for some real post-'60s blues that fits your own narrow definition here's a best guess of some stuff you should look for:

Rule Burnside
Jesse Mae Hemphill
Jimmy "Duck" Holmes
Robert Belfour
Big Jack Johnson (R.I.P.)
Cedric Burnside & Lightnin' Malcolm

Should keep you happy for a while.
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