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RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:36 am
by badfinger
Meanwhile... We got stuck on Plato, with the attendant promise of the Aristotelian view of mimesis, and while I eagerly awaited the introduction of nominalism as the answer to both these fine fellows, I even more so anticipated the appearance of Schrödinger's cat...


bf

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 10:48 am
by srvlives
You foreigners and your funny lingo... had to get the wife to read me the dictionary, and I still don't know what the hell's goin' on here! :+

See you at the
[link:www.users.bigpond.net.au/ozfest2003/|Big Road Blues OzFest 2003]

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:39 am
by blinds
Thats 2 of us

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:59 am
by badfinger
I'm just chuffed that the Board reproduced the umlaut... But it still won't let me talk about the blue-##### in my garden - or the great-#####, or cole-#####...!

Daft, innit!

bf

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 2:42 pm
by david
I even more so anticipated the appearance of Schrödinger's cat...

Scrodingers's cat is out in my barn living off Platonic mice.

Actually, I think of my foray into coon hound chasing in more Husserlian terms. It is my chance to step to the fringe of the cultural structures that have sedimented over the primordial structures which result from the tension between the noetic and noematic poles of the flux.

Our cultural structures, very similar to what Durkheim intended by "social facts," if I read him aright, are badly out of align with the primordial structures. The primordial patterns of phenomena are balanced while the cultural patterns are imbalanced producing no end of trouble.

Peter Berger, in "The Social Construction of Reality" and "The Sacred Canopy" does a good treatment of the emergence and maintenance of the cultural patterns of meaning, but he does not address the primordial structures upon which these must be based, due to his failure to acknowledge the epoche'.

Ergo, the Hopi Prophecy that the whites coming from the west would bear a cross before them. If it was contained in a circle, welcome them; if it is not, then they are out of balance and will destroy all they touch and are to be avoided. They will develop a magic that will allow them to live apart from the natural world, but this magic will be taken from them and they will no longer be capable of living with the world. At that time, only those who have maintained harmony with the creation itelf will be left.

So, let the dogs out!!



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RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:05 pm
by inbred
Cool story, Ric. When I was a teen in the mid-sixties three of us were camping in Brown County State Park in IN. Whilst out off the trails as deep as one can get there we came upon a porcupine who walked right up to us. He/she just pondered us for a while and ambled off into the heavy brush, not afraid and not bothered. The literature we got at the ranger house said porcupines had not been seen since the early 40's. Obviously a spirit porcupine.

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 9:14 pm
by ricochet
He apparently hadn't read the literature.

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2003 11:30 pm
by badfinger
David – Bravo!

My, don’t the connexions multiply, the threads reach out...
However, with Durkheim, you have left my immediate epistemological sphere (not my noosphere - tho’ you didn’t actually advert de Chardin directly, the inference can be made). Durkheim’s particular ‘ology(s) did not connect much with mine... So with dear old Emile, I’m only aware of, eg, the (Bowdlerised, I’m sure) idea that the felon is essential to society as a justification of criminal law... And to provide the common foe that brings about the cohesion of “the good” in opposition thereof.
Husserl, however, did impinge, in linguistics and philology, quite phenomenally (or even –ologically), but by then the blend had been thickened by Wittgenstein, and pride in a shared inability to “...describe the aroma of coffee”. And Ludwig tends to monopolise ones life! (Pity Russel kept getting in the way!)

But them Hopi guys obviously knew a thing or two: the “Grace in Life” dogma which insidiously spread from the “Pilgrim Fathers” and found synergy with the works of James and Peirce is possibly to blame for Mr Rumsfeld

Enough. I must now go and read a little Chomsky, to really mix things up.

bf

PS: So the cat DOES exist!!

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 2:13 am
by david
[updated:LAST EDITED ON Jun-25-03 AT 10:17 PM (EST)]Durkheim claimed that if you took all the most saintly, most straight up folks on Earth and put them on an island together, within a year a percentage of them would be labeled as sinners and deviants. His claim was that only by observing the reaction to the violation of a norm can we know what the acceptable values are. Without knowing the boundaries, we fall into a state of anomie and become prone to suicide--or possibly playing slide guitar in non-standard tunings.

As to whether that cat exists, it all depends on how you define "exist."

As I always ask my students: "Is money real?" Step outside of a culture that uses it and it has no frame of reference and hence no reality. Yet in our culture it shapes your daily life, probably more than the weather does. It does this only because it is a shared assumption that nobody questions and everybody behaves as if it were real.

We live in a "modern" world in which our overlayings of fabricated meaning have blinded us to the primordial world that exists whether we are here or not. As the Buddha pointed out, we live in an illusion. Yet, the worst that can happen to the youth in our modern world is to become "dis-illusioned."

The cultural reality and the primordial reality have become so out of synch that something has to give. Is there any doubt which will ultimately persist?

I always have a hard time explaining to folks that I did not GIVE UP the study of philosophy to come home to farm in a place where my family has lived since the 1780's. I came here because it is what the study of philosophy led to. I like planting in harmony with the natural forces, or losing it all. I like dealing with breeding and birthing--and even death--cycles of livestock. I like turning a hound lose at night and having absolutely no control over whether we will go to the hills or to the sloughs. I take great pleasure in the fact that during the summer, when I am at home on the farm, I often forget what day of the week it is. (Are days of the week real?)

I see it as an antidote. Its actually one of the main reasons I decided to learn to play an instrument, and the blues is one of the least fabricated and formalized of all the forms. I like improvisational playing when the rules are based as much on physical laws of harmony and rhythm as on convention. It either works or it doesn't.

Let the inner dolphins fly!!



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RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 6:57 pm
by ricochet
As the great philosopher Bill Clinton once said: "What is the meaning of 'is'?"

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:30 pm
by houndog
>As I always ask my students: "Is money real?" Step outside
>of a culture that uses it and it has no frame of reference
>and hence no reality. Yet in our culture it shapes your
>daily life, probably more than the weather does. It does
>this only because it is a shared assumption that nobody
>questions and everybody behaves as if it were real.
r it doesn't.

Hello David,
"the acquisition of money is the root of all evil", not money itself.

>Let the inner dolphins fly!!

And so....Can we ever buy a dolphin,or even hear the silence of the lambs?

adios,
Lovat

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:32 pm
by bluesmcgoo
As the great philosopher, Judy Jetson once said:

"Eep opp ork ah-ah."

I think those lyrics were subsequently plagiarized by Jet Screamer. Just goes to show that when you've got a good idea, there's always someone wanting to jump on the bandwagon.

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 8:40 pm
by houndog
>works of James and Peirce is possibly to blame for Mr Rumsfeld <

Baddfing, is that William"the basis of all religion is ;help..help!" James ?

>Enough. I must now go and read a little Chomsky, to really
>mix things up.

Why Keith , you cunning linguist you ;)

adios,
Lovat

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 11:01 pm
by badfinger
The very same, 'dawg - 'Enery's clever brother. Although I was thinking a little more pragma.... prgamatit... pramag... but I can't seem to get my tongue around it.


bf

RE: Try this at home..

PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:45 am
by jellyroll baker
>>Enough. I must now go and read a little Chomsky, to really
>>mix things up.
>
>Why Keith , you cunning linguist you ;)

You'd hardly know that Chomsky's a linguist these days what with all the political writing he's doing.

I'm learning now, in the post-study doldrums, that you never, ever give up studying philosophy once you start. It's quite a nice feeling. Excuse me, I have to go read Epicurus.