hmmmmm........why is that??

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hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lonsterdawg » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:47 pm

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-30-06 AT 05:49 PM (EST)]i was wondering about a couple of things pertaining to application of box theory. any help would be greatly appreciated.

1. why is it on some songs like pa-pa chubby's "sweet goddess of love and beer" and eric clapton's "crossroads" one can play in the realtive major box as a minor AND the minor box as well and why in other songs it doesn't fit??

for instance, in "sweet goddess" the main progression is A-F#min-D-A and one can play both the f#min pentatonic box as well as the Amin pentatonic. in the stones "honky tonk women" in G the main riff is the Eminor pentatonic but one can use the g minor box as well. WUTS UP WIFF DAT????????

2. when playing over the 4 chord in a 1-4-5 progression is there a better way to be articulate than using the relative dorian or simply applying the minor to 4th??

thank you for your kind attention.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby maxx england » Fri Mar 31, 2006 9:11 am

Not good on theory, but perhaps an explanation is that the actual root isn't the most obvious, and the intervals used (although potentially discordant with each other) are related to something, for the want of a better word, displaced.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby blues power » Fri Mar 31, 2006 4:54 pm

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-31-06 AT 11:56 AM (EST)]its the realitive major/min relatiosnhip. so if your in the key of A soling in A pents you can play the F# pent shape which is actually A maj pent beacuse like maxx said the root of the scale would be your pink on the E.

its called the 3 frets lower trick. Allnotes except for like 1 will be in harmony

EC does this in many solos esp in Sunshine where he goes form staight D pents to some nasty B pent box shape bends which is acutally D maj pent scale.

sorry if im explainging this in a confusing manner.

EDIT: this trick to all of that is to land on the note for the key your in. so if your playing an F# box in the key of A accent the A's
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lonsterdawg » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:44 pm

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-31-06 AT 12:51 PM (EST)]>its the realitive major/min relatiosnhip. so if your in the
>key of A soling in A pents you can play the F# pent shape
>which is actually A maj pent beacuse like maxx said the root
>of the scale would be your pink on the E.
>
>its called the 3 frets lower trick. Allnotes except for
>like 1 will be in harmony
>
>EC does this in many solos esp in Sunshine where he goes
>form staight D pents to some nasty B pent box shape bends
>which is acutally D maj pent scale.
>
>sorry if im explainging this in a confusing manner.
>
>EDIT: this trick to all of that is to land on the note for
>the key your in. so if your playing an F# box in the key of
>A accent the A's



actually you laid it out quite well but it still doesn't answer my question. why does it work sometimes and not in others.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby ricochet » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:20 pm

I think I just figured out what you're talking about. If you play the blues scale in the relative minor of the key you're playing in, but use the root of the current backing key as the root note, you're playing what's been called the "major blues scale" or "traditional blues scale" (as I was first taught it.) Leave off the b5 in the root blues scale or the b3 in the "major blues scale," and you've got the minor and major pentatonics. Either one will work over a major key accompaniment without any "clam" notes. In fact, you can combine the notes of both for what I like to call the "Super Blues Scale" that'll always work for soloing over a major accompaniment. (R-2-b3-3-4-b5-5-6-b7)

But over a minor key backing, the major pentatonic and "major blues scale" won't work. Stick to the minor pent or minor blues scale.

And sometimes the mood of the major pent and blues scales doesn't sound right for the piece. They're happy sounding, usually. The "major blues scale" and the combined scale I mentioned are used a LOT in New Orleans piano jazz, and in Southern gospel.


"A cheerful heart is good medicine."
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby blues power » Fri Mar 31, 2006 8:38 pm

it depends on the chords progression. like i mentined 1 or 2 notes will not fit. i cant remeber which ones cus i do it by feel and im at work with no guitar in hand. so if say the song goes to a
bIII change it may clash in that instance.

a great trick i use is to look at the chord and find a scale that hits the majority of the notes. wheather it be blues scale or not.

so over a minor IV and V Chnage i like to play a phygrian mode.
it blends is real well and gives the solo a lotta depth.
and you dont need to change postions.

this is what BB referes to when he says that he can play a whole 12 barre progression in the same postion.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lonsterdawg » Sat Apr 01, 2006 1:26 am

thanks guys. i think i got it now. sorry i didn't explain it very well.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lorilu » Tue Apr 04, 2006 4:07 am

Hey Dawg, Jus wonderin if you have Warren Zs last album and what you think of it. I like your quote so thought you might be a fan. I like him and I love Elvis Costello (don't know why I'm putting the two together) but did not buy the final album.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lonsterdawg » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:51 am

>Hey Dawg, Jus wonderin if you have Warren Zs last album and
>what you think of it. I like your quote so thought you might
>be a fan. I like him and I love Elvis Costello (don't know
>why I'm putting the two together) but did not buy the final
>album.

i've heard it but i don't own it. last year or so i saw a special on him during the recording of his last album and thought it was enjoyable. kinda sad though. when asked what advice he would give to those who don't have long to live he said "enjoy every sandwich".

i thought it was deep. to me it meant that when one is dying that simple pleasures are easier to enjoy. the texture of life is woven looser so each thread is noticed. every pleasure is taken deeper. clear water, clean air, good food, the touch of your daughter's hand and so forth become ever more dear and close. at least that's how i felt about it.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby telemonkey » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:18 pm

What Blues Power said. That's a good explanation.
A good way to get used to this is record some backing chords in G. Like a simple twelve bar g blues (G,C,D) and then noodle a few solo lines using e-minor pentatonic. (and as Blues Power said, try and end your phrases or "land" on a G) A lot of country stuff is like this. You'll actually be playing G major pentatonic. A few hours of practice like this can really open up some new riffs.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lonsterdawg » Tue Apr 04, 2006 7:51 pm

>What Blues Power said. That's a good explanation.
>A good way to get used to this is record some backing chords
>in G. Like a simple twelve bar g blues (G,C,D) and then
>noodle a few solo lines using e-minor pentatonic. (and as
>Blues Power said, try and end your phrases or "land" on a G)
>A lot of country stuff is like this. You'll actually be
>playing G major pentatonic. A few hours of practice like
>this can really open up some new riffs.

thanks, i was wondering why this works sometimes and not others. what b.p. noted put it in perspective for me. thanks for the ideas.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby ricochet » Wed Apr 05, 2006 12:31 am

It's a modal thing, just like C major and A minor having the same notes, just starting from a different point. Works the same way with the pentatonics and blues scales.

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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lorilu » Wed Apr 05, 2006 2:31 am

Nice, Dawg. I feel that way.
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lonsterdawg » Wed Apr 05, 2006 4:44 pm

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Apr-05-06 AT 12:45 PM (EST)]>Nice, Dawg. I feel that way.


woof-woof!!!!:7
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RE: hmmmmm........why is that??

Postby lorilu » Wed Apr 05, 2006 11:57 pm

You know what I meant, though.
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