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PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:14 pm
by tim3finger
Bubba,

I agree 100%. I grew up in an old time hardcore SBC Church with hymnals. Then you had a fightin chance to follow the funny little marks up and down the register and sing along. Now it's just words on a screen. The intent is the same, worship and praise, but, as you said, if you don' t know the song, you can't sing it.

I think I said it earlier, but I like the old Gospel songs better. They have the message, they flow well, and almost everyone knows them or has heard them before.

I also must state, anything I say in this post, or on this forum is not meant to be judgemental in any way whatsoever. My beliefs and faith are mine and are not for me to shove down anyone's throat.

Peace,

Tim

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 6:54 pm
by 1armbandit
I agree with you guys about the contemporary praise music. Seems like every Brittny Simpson wannabee is trying to be a pop star on the Christian stations. I lose my will to listen pretty quickly.

Dean, hope you have a blessed time at this gig. I just got a couple of CD's off CDBaby's Christian Blues section. One kind of Delta blues-one man, reso and harp the other more electric guitar, horns, rocking blues. Both with good messages and good playing. They had 185 titles or so. I'll be ordering more for sure.

I "borrowed" this from the Christian Harmonica forum. I was at a church leadership seminar recently and the bit about praise music really made me laugh. Repetitive would be a real understatement.

A Funny Little Story About Hymns and Praise Songs

By Author Unknown

An old farmer went to the city one weekend and attended the big city church.
He came home and his wife asked him how it was.
"Well," said the farmer. "It was good. They did something different, however.
They sang praise choruses instead of hymns."
"Praise choruses?" asked the wife. "What are those?"
"Oh, they're okay. They're sort of like hymns, only different," said the
farmer.
"Well, what's the difference?" asked the wife.
The farmer said, "Well it's like this ... If I were to say to you,

'Martha, the cows are in the corn,' well that would be a hymn. If, on the other
hand, I were to say to you,

'Martha, Martha, Martha, Oh, Martha, MARTHA, MARTHA,

the cows, the big cows, the brown cows, the black cows, the white cows, the
black and white cows,

the COWS, COWS, COWS are in the corn,
are in the corn, are in the corn, in the CORN, CORN, CORN,
COOOOORRRRRNNNNN,'

then, if I were to repeat the whole thing two or three times, well that would be
a praise chorus."

As luck would have it, the exact same Sunday a young Christian from the city
church attended the small town church.

He came home and his wife asked him how it was.
"Well," said the young man, "It was good. They did something different,
however. They sang hymns instead of regular songs."
"Hymns?" asked the wife. "What are those?"
"They're okay. They're sort of like regular songs, only different," said the
young man.
"Well, what's the difference?" asked the wife.
The young man said, "Well it's like this ... If I were to say to you,

'Martha, the cows are in the corn,' well that would be a regular song.

If on the other hand, I were to say to you,

" Oh Martha, dear Martha, hear thou my cry
Inclinest thine ear to the words of my mouth.
Turn thou thy whole wondrous ear by and by
To the righteous, glorious truth.

" For the way of the animals who can explain
There in their heads is no shadow of sense,
Hearkenest they in God's sun or his rain
Unless from the mild, tempting corn they are fenced.

" Yea those cows in glad bovine, rebellious delight,
Have broke free their shackles, their warm pens eschewed.
Then goaded by minions of darkness and night
They all my mild Chilliwack sweet corn chewed.

" So look to that bright shining day by and by,
Where all foul corruptions of earth are reborn
Where no vicious animal makes my soul cry
And I no longer see those foul cows in the corn,

"Then, if I were to do only verses one, two, and four, and change keys on the
last verse, well that would be a hymn."

Amen to that Brother!

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:16 pm
by tim3finger
ROTFLMAO

Tim

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:21 pm
by 1armbandit
Best to you to Tim, didn't mean to leave you out.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 8:31 pm
by allanlummox
I just wind up getting in trouble if I follow the string...


As far as religion goes, (and I hope this is the ONLY time I'll post on such a forbidden topic) I still find myself camped next to Woody Guthrie - on a form that asked for his Faith, he wrote in "None".


When they told him that wasn't going to work, he wrote in "All of them".



If there's only "one true path" to following our creators will, then he must really love to watch us fight.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:02 pm
by rustyslide
Despite my own heathen religious beliefs (or "lack of them" as some would describe), I love Gospel and old spirituals.

This praise and worship stuff (not the first word to come to mind) sounds like the most banal pop with "baby" being replaced by "Jesus", e.g:
Brittney Spears wrote:Oh Jesus Jesus, oh Jesus Jesus

Oh Jesus Jesus, how was I supposed to know
That something wasnt right here
Oh Jesus Jesus, I shouldnt have let you go
And now youre out of sight, yeah
Show me how you want it to be
Tell me Jesus cuz I need to know now, oh because

My loneliness is killin me (and I)
I must confess I still believe (still believe)
When I'm not with you I lose my mind
Give me a sign, hit me Jesus one more time!


(Probably not the best example)

My girlfriend's sister loves this music. I gave her a Mavis Staples album for Christmas, which she liked, which gives me some hope that all is not lost.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 10:51 pm
by guitarslim101
This contemporary christian stuff is what they play at all the masses at my school...I've got a few words to describe it but they could get me in a heap of trouble. I've tried suggesting to them that they try some old gospel but they won't have any of it. It may be part of the reason I'm an atheist...

Rusty, I'm going to make the assumption that you've seen the Faith +1 episode of South Park. Am I correct?

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:45 pm
by stratman_27
I agree that playing different music expands your musical horizons but if you don't like it or are not into it, its hard to make yourself learn it. I played with a country band for almost two years but I never really learned the guitar parts that go with country picking because I really wasn't into it. I ended up replacing the lead singer because I was a better singer and I could strum a flattop and add a little to the rythmn guitar parts. It was a good paying gig and we were booked every weekend but classic country just wasn't my thing. I enjoyed singing it but never learned the guitar in the genre. I eventually lost interest and helped the band find a new singer/guitar player. It was then that I dove into the blues and and started a power trio. I was in my element and learned all my poor sponge could absorb.

PostPosted: Tue May 23, 2006 11:45 pm
by jeffl
Well,even if we have different religious beliefs,it seems that alot of us agree that old gospel,and gospel blues is fun music. Thank God for music,lol!

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:00 am
by tim3finger
jeffl wrote:Well,even if we have different religious beliefs,it seems that alot of us agree that old gospel,and gospel blues is fun music. Thank God for music,lol!



I agree totally.

I also respect the right for people to say what they feel. Some one told me a long time ago, never discuss Politics or religion, cause the former is opinion and the latter is faith, neither of which you will change in a person with words from your mouth. Good advice, hey?.

I do love hearing all the viewpoints. Music is music, after all, whether we personally like a particular style or not. I don't like rap/hip hop, but it is music to some folks, good or bad.

Tim

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:23 am
by lorilu
Yeah, I kinda felt like I was being judgemental but it wasn't meant that way. I am one of those who believes in everything if it feels true to me. I am not too traditional in anything at all. I have grown up in the bible belt of California and have many times felt put upon and judged by "christians". It gets old fast. I know some really nice religous people and they are not like that. I truly do not care for that music, one, because it does not feel real to me, it is very overproduced and slick. That is probably all I need to say.

I love you guys and respect you and whatever you try to do. If you are enjoying yourselves that's what matters. I like all kinds of music. I am sorry for sounding kinda glib. I try not to be so jaded anymore. And to be kind and respectful but I fall at times. Though i will say, Those Who Speak Do Not Know, Those Who Know Do Not Speak.

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:23 am
by jeffl
I work in the car business,and I jus' cringe when customers start talking politics or religion,especially when a sale is on the line. I jus' keep goin' "yep,yep,yep. uh-huh. yep. you betcha." As far as contemporary Christian music, I can't get into most of it either,but it wasn't written for guys my age. Our contemporary praise band at church sucks,but I don't complain,'cuz I'm not doin' anything to help 'em out. Our best young musicians are the ones playing the classical stuff...we got some great violinists,brass and wind players,etc.,but lack great guitarists and keyboarders. It drives me nuts,'cuz our music director has a masters in performing keyboard,and has gigged in clubs for years,but he can't seem to impart his mastery to his minions.

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 12:34 am
by 1four5
Thanks Bandit! Man that piece is halarious!

Man, this thread sure is interesting! I don't have anything to add on the religious discussion, but I will comment on music styles. I play a lot of music with my friends that I would never in a million years pick out myself to learn. In fact, If I go through our set book (130 or so songs) two of them were writtian by me, one by Tim, and maybe 4 or 5 others were my suggestions. The rest are gospel/hyms/classic country/bluegrass/old rock and mid last century crooner pop stuff that I never would have dreamed of playing. However, my friends are friends first, and bandmates second. When I hit a chord at the right time, and hear Tom lay down a lead and work off my fingerpicking, and hear Tim laying down a catchy bass line...it's more than music to me, it's the best times of my life with my best friends. And they are happening right now! It's gotten way way way beyond what type of music that we are playing. To me, it's that we are playing that matters.

Here's the story in a nutshell. 2 1/2 years ago Tim and I got guitars and brought them to work...thinking it would be a cool thing to learn over lunch times. We both went straight for blues. It didn't take long to find out that Tom, a coworker, was an experience guitar player. He helped us from the start, teaching us 12 bar progressions and pentitonic scales. Soon he had a guitar at work as well, and started joining us. Although he's a good blues player, it's not his thing very much...so he would humor us and help us with blues, at the same time teaching us all kinds of other stuff. Fast forward to last year, he said we were getting good enough to play out. Long story short, to get our sound, Tim went to bass and I went to banjo and Tom's wife joined us on rhythm guitar. Tom, Tim and I practice 3 times a day (breaks and lunch) every work day! Alice joins us for an after work practice once a week. We play good together, we know eachother's moves and strengths and weaknesses. Tim and I might not be very exerienced, but Tom knows how to put what we can do together. Like I've said, I really don't care what we play anymore...it's that we are playing that means more to me than anything. We have a lot invested in eachother. We are all getting older and realize that we gotta make the good times while we can. Whipping up a contemporary christian set in less than a week has been a nerve wracking blastwith my great friends, and I can't wait to do it. Tom wouldn't have committed if he didn't trust we could pull it off. Ok...gotta go practice! Hopefully we'll have a report later tomorrow night or Thursday. 8)

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:30 am
by fat paul
My brothers in the bar band are far more supportive and uplifting than the p&w bands I have been involved with. Most of the church musicians that I have met play in church because that is the only "gig" that thay can get and thay gaurd that very closely. Never a shortage of daggers in the back..
fat paul

PostPosted: Wed May 24, 2006 1:32 pm
by jeffl
fat paul wrote:My brothers in the bar band are far more supportive and uplifting than the p&w bands I have been involved with. Most of the church musicians that I have met play in church because that is the only "gig" that thay can get and thay gaurd that very closely. Never a shortage of daggers in the back..
fat paul
It sounds like you've had some unfortunate experiences with praise and worship bands; I doubt that your experiences are the norm; I haven't been personally involved in P&W situations for 35 years,but I've listened to some awesome praise bands,with great musicians at some churches other than the one I attend. I think you are very lucky to be in a band that creates an environment more supporting and uplifting than a church environment. It sounds to me like you have either been unlucky, or there's jus' something about the church experience you honestly don't like.