panic attack

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panic attack

Postby rookie » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:11 pm

Had a Chord Finder DVD delivered from my mail order hire service the other day, and after trying a few of the early chords, was suddenly freaked out by hundreds of augmented and diminished major and minor things. They all look achievable, certainly, but I just wondered - how many chords would you guys estimate you normally use in the course of your blues plankspanking?
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RE: panic attack

Postby boogiechillun85 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:16 pm

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RE: panic attack

Postby rookie » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:17 pm

Me too!
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RE: panic attack

Postby nizer » Wed Mar 08, 2006 2:34 pm

>- how many chords
>would you guys estimate you normally use in the course of
>your blues plankspanking?

The number it takes minus the number I don't know.
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RE: panic attack

Postby bluesmcgoo » Wed Mar 08, 2006 3:53 pm

Tell me more about this DVD.

I've been working on increasing the harmonic complexity in my playing. Makes for more interesting and expressive arrangments. The more you understand harmony, the better as far as I'm concerned.

So...what about the DVD?
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RE: panic attack

Postby boogiechillun85 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:04 pm

Okay, so I was being kind of a jerk with my earlier response. ;)
Honestly though, my favorite kinds of songs are the modal one chord kind of things. That's just what grabs me. I'll tend to throw in a few others, but overall I don't think I use a large chord vocabulary at all. I leanred plenty of it, it's just tended to become a lesser and lesser part of my playing since I stopped with bands.
Mostly I tend to use riffs instead of chord changes, or inversions of the chords. Those are good for playing behind yourself, and can make a damn good solo if you play them fast on the high strings. I find myself throwing in 6ths and ALOT of 9ths sometimes, but it's never from the approach of "wait, now what was that nice one on the bottom of page 47?" I'd say just learn chord theory and make the rest up instead of trying to memorize the 40,000+ chords some of those books give you.
I just avoid augmented, diminished chords like the plague, cause as far as I'm concerned starting to sound jazzy is a bad thing.
Jim
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RE: panic attack

Postby bluesmcgoo » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:31 pm

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-06 AT 11:33 AM (EST)]Oh...don't get me wrong. I love the one chord stuff. Mississippi Fred MacDowell's my hero on that front.

I just want to be proficient at the other end of the spectrum also.

As a friend of mine is fond of saying, "It's not what you actually do, but what you're capable of doing that matters." Whether or not you agree with that statment...there's a certain truth in there that I can't argue with.

I'm all about optimizing my potential. :)
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RE: panic attack

Postby rookie » Wed Mar 08, 2006 4:34 pm

http://www.musicroom.com/se/ID_No/068320/details.html

That might explain it better than I can. Basically though, you've got a list of major chords, minor chords, and moveable chords. The first two contain 12 (I think) chords per section - ie D, F minor etc. There's no narrative at all - you just select the chord you want to try, and it plays it twice, then loops back and plays over and over until you stop it.

It would be ideal as a reference guide, but at this stage, I'm not too concerned about it. I'm just using the hire library as a cheap way to check out the available instruction dvds, deciding on the best one and then buying it later on - you really can't beat being able to use the A-B repeat button to loop that one little bit you want to learn.

Boogiechilllun, I would have agreed about your take on jazz guitar until I saw the Woody Allen film Sweet & Lowdown a few weeks ago. That Emmett Ray did some great stuff...
As for which chords to learn, my blues fakebook from C2C arrived yesterday, so that should definitely guide me on that front...
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RE: panic attack

Postby boogiechillun85 » Wed Mar 08, 2006 5:44 pm

Don't get me wrong, I like jazz. There are just too many "blues" bands around here that I listen to and think "well, this is really just jazz with a lack of talent."
That, and Guitar Player magazine has just made me militant. No, not EVERYTHING needs "spicy jazz changes"! Bah! x(
Yeah..
Jim
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RE: panic attack

Postby 1four5 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 12:34 am

Man, I use tons of chords. However, it aint as bad as you think. Once you got your open chords down...it only takes a handfull of bar chords and the fretboard opens up. The difference between a major/minor/7th chord/9th chord is often just the lifting or adding one finger to the chord you already got. I've only learned one augmented and one diminished chord form. They are movable so it's just a matter of landing on the right fret. If I would count all the chords in all the songs and keys we use in a jam, man...I'd have a panic attacks too! But I could count the chord forms I use on my fingers and have a few left over. Lets see...one chord form (standard tuning)...say an A barr chord at the 5th fret. Lift a finger you got an A minor. put it back down and lift another you got an A7. Add a pinky and you got A9. All easy stuff, and you got 4 chords there. Now you can use them at any fret...so, the 4 chords x 12 frets = 48 different chords. Learn a few more chord forms...and without panicing...you mathmatically have 100's of chords at your disposal.
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RE: panic attack

Postby boogiechillun85 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 1:04 am

I don't think that's exactly what he meant. I mean, I can play an F chord and move it up to F#, does that mean I know two chord forms? Not really..
Jim
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RE: panic attack

Postby 1four5 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:53 am

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Mar-08-06 AT 09:58 PM (EST)]I was just looking back to when I was totally freeked by them chord posters and chord books. Respectfully, and only my opinion, but if you move an F to an F#, yes you know two chords, but using one chord form. I'm still freeked by them lessons and books that have a million chords, and every open finger twister and inversion known to man. I guess what I was getting at, is that it's not like you have to study for a lifetime and learn them all. If I need a Bb9, I'll fly up to the 6th fret and get it or 13th fret, because those are simple and the only two ways I know how to make one. If I need a diminished chord, I'll make the only one I know, and since it repeats every 4 frets, it's easy to find the right placment. I pretty much learned all the chord forms I use now, in the first 6 months or so. I'm still constantly learning and slowly picking more complex stuff, and some oddball song spicific stuff, but it's a lot simpler and easier to have fun early on, than some of them overwhelming books and lessons would lead you to believe. Again, just my view.
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RE: panic attack

Postby bighollowtwang » Thu Mar 09, 2006 3:30 am

I always thought it was best to know more than you need than to be limited by what you don't know.

What I love about players like Robert Lockwood and Eddie Taylor is that they can record shuffle after shuffle after shuffle, yet each guitar accompaniment contains something unique and original. Try to imagine Little Walter or Sonny Boy Williamson II's recordings without Lockwood's (or Louis Myers or Luther Tucker, etc) playing! Or Jimmy Reed without Eddie Taylor (Eddie WAS "The Jimmy Reed Sound")...in fact, consider how many people try playing Jimmy Reed and end up sounding more like George Thorogood...chalk it up to the subtlety and vast chordal vocabulary of the guys that made rhythm guitar and art form. I can't stress the importance of knowing every practical chord form enough...and the best place to start is closely examining Robert Lockwood's recordings as a sideman.
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RE: panic attack

Postby boogiechillun85 » Thu Mar 09, 2006 2:00 pm

I think as long as you underline the word "practical" in that post, I agree completely.
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RE: panic attack

Postby lightninboy » Thu Mar 09, 2006 9:43 pm

Jim wrote:

I find myself throwing in 6ths
>and ALOT of 9ths sometimes, but it's never from the approach
>of "wait, now what was that nice one on the bottom of page
>47?" I'd say just learn chord theory and make the rest up
>instead of trying to memorize the 40,000+ chords some of
>those books give you.


I couldn't agree more Jim, once you have studied harmony, (chord theory) you have the musical world at your feet. Not only can you come up with any chord or progression you need, for any tuning, but you can also use apreggio's and scale runs to help out with melody.
I've made a living teaching these things.

Jim also wrote:
> I just avoid augmented, diminished chords like the plague,
>cause as far as I'm concerned starting to sound jazzy is a
>bad thing.
>Jim

Now thats just not true; augmented and dimished chords are just other ways of creating tension/dissonance like a dominant 7th or 9th chord, only more intense, with more flavour.
Not necessarliy Jazz.
And they're easy too.
Ther's only 4 diminished chord's and three augmented, to cover the whole tonal range.
Pretty hard to go wrong.
There's some real nasty blue's guitarists that use these chords.

Try some, you might like 'em!
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