Do we really want these people running our health care?

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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby Bournio » Thu Aug 13, 2009 11:39 pm

I was going to type a reply. But I get stressed at the left/right thing, so I'll stop.

I think I've been staring at this screen for about half an hour.

I do hope that most people are satisfied by whatever happens. Democracy guys, it doesn't matter what YOU think. It's what the majority thinks. Or in most cases, what those elected by the majority think.

I'd love to be in a true democratic country. But decisions would take an age!
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby ricochet » Fri Aug 14, 2009 1:29 am

Sadly, what the majority of people think is what they're told to think by powerful special interests.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby songdog » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:52 am

ricochet wrote:Sadly, what the majority of people think is what they're told to think by powerful special interests.


SO true.

The problem with health care is nobody wants to address/fix the underlying issues that are causing the skyrocketing costs. Why? Because TOO MANY special interest groups pull the political purse strings. It doesn't make any difference which side of the political spectrum you're on..... all of the politicians are guilty. So what's the easy solution? Let government run a 'feel good' health care system that everyone gets for free :blink: Yeh, that will fix the problem.

It's like trying to prevent murder by banning hand guns. It's way too hard to fix the underlying reason for why people murder each other so let's do the most obvious and easiest fix.... take away their guns! Yeh, that will fix it.

We're so f*^#king stupid!
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby BluezOldy » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:59 am

songdog wrote:... Let government run a 'feel good' health care system that everyone gets for free


Will it be free? In Australia we pay a Medicare levy at the rate of 1.5% of our taxable income.

And, as I said before, we can still have private insurance as well.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby songdog » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:11 am

BluezOldy wrote:
songdog wrote:... Let government run a 'feel good' health care system that everyone gets for free


Will it be free? In Australia we pay a Medicare levy at the rate of 1.5% of our taxable income.

And, as I said before, we can still have private insurance as well.


No it won't be free because they'll have to tax the hell out of us to pay for it. They are blowing smoke up our ass hoping we'll believe them when they say it will only cost a trillion dollars over the next 10 years. I bet it costs 10X that much.

But that's not the point. Our health care system is broken and our government, as it exists today, does not have the will to fix it.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby songdog » Fri Aug 14, 2009 3:45 am

BluezOldy wrote:
And, as I said before, we can still have private insurance as well.


Private Insurance? Oh yeh. I'm self employed in my early 50's. Private insurance for a family of four runs about $700 per month with 80% coverage and a per person deductible of $500. So basically I'm paying over $8000 per year for insurance and also paying for ALL OF OUR MEDICAL EXPENSES. The insurance really only kicks in when a catastrophic situation occurs. Dental and vision coverage..... S*#t, no that's extra!

I had a friend in his early 60's (pre-medicare) with pre-existing conditions (self-employed) was paying nearly $2000 per month for private health insurance.

To quote Bill Murray "So I got that going for me."

OK, it's my bedtime - thanks for letting me rant.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby leftyguitarman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:04 am

Why does everyone bitch about all this socialism? Do you not realize how much shit in this country is already socialized? Police, public school, fire department, EMTs, libraries, the FBI, CIA, the Postal Service, the EPA, national parks, roads and highways, veterans affairs, social security, the list goes on for a long ass time. But then when something comes up that isn't socialized already, it's socialism, and that's bad, and then in turn it will lead to communism, huh? If you don't want healthcare because it's socialism then you might as well protest against having to pay your taxes to fund all of the above mentioned things.

Image

Woooooooo, I'm socialism, oooooo I'm scary, be afraid.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby leftyguitarman » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:12 am

songdog wrote:No it won't be free because they'll have to tax the hell out of us to pay for it. They are blowing smoke up our ass hoping we'll believe them when they say it will only cost a trillion dollars over the next 10 years. I bet it costs 10X that much.


If it costs one trillion, that's roughly $300 per person, per year for health care over ten years. And you pay $700 a month? Hmm, tell me, what option sounds better to you? Complaining about paying more taxes yet the taxes you pay would save you $8100 annually? I don't see the logic in this whole "healthcare means more taxes" argument.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby beard-of-grey » Fri Aug 14, 2009 4:14 am

Lets start with the facts
Professor Hawking, the Cambridge University professor and author of A Brief History of Time, was quick to point out that he was, in fact, British and lived in his home country.

"I wouldn't be here today if it were not for the NHS," he said.

"I have received a large amount of high-quality treatment without which I would not have survived."


and what some of the press said
Investor's Business Daily declared the disabled scientist would not receive treatment under Britain's healthcare system.

The newspaper's editorial claimed Mr Obama's proposal for a government-run health insurance scheme similar to that in Britain would punish the elderly and disabled.

"People such as scientist Stephen Hawking wouldn't have a chance in the UK, where the National Health Service would say the life of this brilliant man, because of his physical handicaps, is essentially worthless," it said.
there are vested interests at work here, no doubt about it.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/st ... 03,00.html
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby Bournio » Fri Aug 14, 2009 10:28 am

leftyguitarman wrote:Why does everyone bitch about all this socialism? Do you not realize how much shit in this country is already socialized? Police, public school, fire department, EMTs, libraries, the FBI, CIA, the Postal Service, the EPA, national parks, roads and highways, veterans affairs, social security, the list goes on for a long ass time. But then when something comes up that isn't socialized already, it's socialism, and that's bad, and then in turn it will lead to communism, huh? If you don't want healthcare because it's socialism then you might as well protest against having to pay your taxes to fund all of the above mentioned things.

Image

Woooooooo, I'm socialism, oooooo I'm scary, be afraid.


LOVE IT!

You mean socialism isn't a bit scary ghost of monsters from the east?

“Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not.”

The Nationalsozialismus were a socialist party...
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby Bant's Bluz » Fri Aug 14, 2009 12:00 pm

Bournio wrote:I was going to type a reply. But I get stressed at the left/right thing, so I'll stop.

I think I've been staring at this screen for about half an hour.

I do hope that most people are satisfied by whatever happens. Democracy guys, it doesn't matter what YOU think. It's what the majority thinks. Or in most cases, what those elected by the majority think.

I'd love to be in a true democratic country. But decisions would take an age!


The United States of America is a REPUBLIC. It is not a democracy. As far as national health care goes, I'm totally against it. Also, I've seen similar health care (the Veteran's Administration) and that's tends to be one serious Charlie Foxtrot!!!!!

I want to always be able to choose my medical care providers myself, NOT some political hack in DC or somewhere else.

Rant mode off.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby ricochet » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:30 pm

Nobody has proposed a nationalized health system anyway. There are proposals to extend health insurance to a wider section of the population than is presently covered, and the best one was to provide a government insurance plan to compete with the damnable insurance companies that have ruined our health care system and economy with their robber baron thuggery. With their vast resources, far exceeding the net worth of most nations, which have bought the most skillful manipulators of opinion, the insurance companies have convinced many people that they're better off under their control. That's the mass delusion of which I spoke above.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby songdog » Fri Aug 14, 2009 2:43 pm

Bournio wrote:
leftyguitarman wrote:Why does everyone bitch about all this socialism? Do you not realize how much shit in this country is already socialized? Police, public school, fire department, EMTs, libraries, the FBI, CIA, the Postal Service, the EPA, national parks, roads and highways, veterans affairs, social security, the list goes on for a long ass time.


Let's examine your examples:

Police - underfunded

Public Schools - urban schools have a 50% dropout rate

Fire, EMTs, Libraries - all underfunded

The Postal Service - $7 billion in the hole

EPA - underfunded, doesn't do anything

Parks - underfunded

Roads and Highways - underfunded and dangerous

Veterans Affairs - a disgrace to our country

Social Security - Scheduled to run out of money in 2016.... probably sooner if our economy stays in the tank. Need to file an honest to god real disability claim - get a lawyer and expect to spend years in court.

Yep, the list goes on and on of our government run failures. WTF might as well add one more to the list :D
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby Bant's Bluz » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:14 pm

ricochet wrote:Nobody has proposed a nationalized health system anyway. There are proposals to extend health insurance to a wider section of the population than is presently covered, and the best one was to provide a government insurance plan to compete with the damnable insurance companies that have ruined our health care system and economy with their robber baron thuggery. With their vast resources, far exceeding the net worth of most nations, which have bought the most skillful manipulators of opinion, the insurance companies have convinced many people that they're better off under their control. That's the mass delusion of which I spoke above.


Well stated Rico. At the same time I would submit that, in a large part, due to trial lawyers, medical practioners are being beaten half to death, in terms of liability insurance!

I will also admit, that having been a US Government employee for over thirty years, I've seen what the government can and will do to cover their asses. The previous statement come from a working knowledge of medical care, which I was a part of from 1974-1988.

My response to lefty was childish and I apologize for it. I'm in an extremely foul mood as I've just found out my beloved Rottie had bone cancer. So to Lefty, I hope there are no hard feelings.
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Re: Do we really want these people running our health care?

Postby birddog » Fri Aug 14, 2009 5:24 pm

Songdog great examples.

I'll paste a paragragh or two from a friend of mine that works in the field. My sister is a RN at a hospital in Sarasota and she pretty much echo's his words. Americans a unique :lol: at least till we get tort reform and get over our sorry spoiled ways :oops:
Rico may have some similar observances.

Do you guys ever feel like we bring the inflation on ourselves?? In the hospital I work in we have old wings in which there are still 4 bed rooms, which now only get used as a semi private (2 beds for privacy reasons), and a new wing which has private rooms as big as some peoples main floors on their house with flat screen tv's and the works. People come to the hospital, as it is now big business, and piss and moan about this and that, and privacy this and that, and want to sue for any little thing that goes wrong for and ungodly amount of money, therefore the hospitals and dr's need to raise costs to cover both of these things, and upscale the hospital to be better than the competition, which also raises insurance and continues to snoball. Our healthcare is superior to many other countries, especially some of the before mentioned IE canada, but we could scale back on some of the chrome that goes with it. Come to the hospital and get fixed, deal with what comes along with it instead of expecting some 5 star hotel stay and costs might not have got driven up so high. As for universal healthcare, pretty sure it exists to an extent. People come and use the system all the time and the hospital eats the bill. As for the plan itself, why would you want something that goes strictly by guidelines and age bracketing. Basically you could be 75 years old, healthy as a horse, and have a low heart rate, only needing a pacemaker which is pretty much a 2 day stay, and with this proposed plan, you would be S.O.L. pretty much telling you we are only going to make you comfortable because you don't fit an age criteria, when you could otherwise return to better than before function. We would be better served coming up with a plan for minors and some sort of national prescription plan for people that could help people afford their pills so they are compliant, don't get so far down the crapper that they need to come to the hospital or ruin their health beyond repair. It all goes together, but I see a lot more people who wouldn't need to be here if they could just get a break on some meds, leading to thousands of extra dollars of hospital bills. Heaven forbid we practice any prevention in America instead of just treatment, but nobody wants to pay for that!

Too many things just stink with this plan, don't rush it through just get it right.

Wally
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