tab vs. notation

A discussion of the blues for blues lovers and fans.

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby costa » Wed Dec 17, 2003 4:27 pm

>Costa:
>
>One thing not mentioned so far - Do you enjoy it? Are you
>having fun?
>
>Cos that's all that really matters.
>
>bf

Everytime I pick up my bass, I can't help but smile(unless someone calls for Mustang Sally!) Thanks for asking.

And nobody's fighting David. These are the kind of lively debates I'd like to see more of, how fun would it be if we all agrred on everything?

Costa

That's right, sufferin'; just like you're sufferin'. Sufferin' Mind. Here we go now.
User avatar
costa
Regular
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:39 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby badfinger » Wed Dec 17, 2003 5:19 pm

"musical theory vs. being competent at reading and/or playing music"

Not incompatible, nor essential one to the other. You don't have to know thermodynamics to be a racing driver, but knowing the principles behind the component systems of a racing car adds to the understanding... And the fun. (For many)

"good poets have a gift for "turning" a phrase"
Wood-turning be buggered, David - the word 'verse' is from the latin for 'turn' or 'turning' (eg, a 'verse'was the 'turn' at the end of a ploughed furrow).

"looking at the tune written out on paper would allow a different perspective on the piece."
Too right. As I said - adds to the understanding. And the fun, cos you can read-hear it in your head, and play around with it (slower, faster, louder...) even rearrange it. It's no different from doing lit. crit. - analysing what the composer did and what effects it produced, or how he produced a certain effect... (That applies more to 'formal' musical genres - such as seeing the iterative cadences, almost hidden, in a lot of Tchaikovsky, when he wants to pull your mood to poignancy...)

It just adds more depth to the musical experience.

As for "some folks just have a natural gift for putting musical themes together..." Too true. And words. And paint on canvas... And... I wish my name were Leonardo.

bf
badfinger
Regular
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:51 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby david » Thu Dec 18, 2003 4:01 pm

>Wood-turning be buggered, David - the word 'verse' is from
>the latin for 'turn' or 'turning' (eg, a 'verse'was the
>'turn' at the end of a ploughed furrow).
>

Wow. I just learned something I didn't expect. I have turned lots of furrows but never knew the connection to "verse." I will never look at a furrow the same way again!


(That applies more to 'formal'
>musical genres - such as seeing the iterative cadences,
>almost hidden, in a lot of Tchaikovsky, when he wants to
>pull your mood to poignancy...)

I know nothing about musical theory, and picking it up on your own can be a bugger. Talk about a steep learning curve! I have long conversations with the professor that teaches music at the college, but most of the time it's like he's speaking a language I haven't learned well enough--yet.

It has always been amazing to me how a mood could be produced by the structure of a piece of music. Placing a theme in a particular structure gives it a recognizable flavor. I have often wondered 1) how you learn those structures, and 2) if they are cultural products or if they are more universal in nature. I suspect there are certain basic structures that (like the structures expressed in the laws of physics) are primordial and will evoke the same impressions universally, while the more cultural variations are overlayed upon these.

This is the context within which I have tried to understand the "what is blues and where is the line between it and rock & roll" question.

>As for "some folks just have a natural gift for putting
>musical themes together..." Too true. And words. And
>paint on canvas... And... I wish my name were Leonardo.

I know it is unacceptable on this board to drift from the topic (!) but, have you read, "The Da Vinci Code?" It ought to be required reading.
david
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 658
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2005 3:06 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby badfinger » Thu Dec 18, 2003 5:50 pm

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Dec-18-03 AT 12:54 PM (EST)]"how you learn those structures,"

I think it necessary to distinguish between
"how do you recognise these structures", and
"how do you technically understand them".

I suggest that the answer to the latter is obviously the academic
route.

For the former, (as is often said on this board, about blues music) it's exposure - listening.

Although I can understand a devotion to a particular form of music, I am surpried that so many seem not to want to experience all aspects and genres of music, even if they reject many or all of them.

I cannot understand someone saying that they are moved by a particular piece of blues, yet deny themselves the experience of feeling the prickling behind the eyes at hearing, say, Allegri's "Miserere"...


"if they are cultural products or if they are more universal in nature."

I would have liked to have spent more time (a helluva lot more time) studying aesthetics, which is where I reckon this belongs. I don't know - and I'm not sure that an answer is available. I expect that it's a bit of both, but I'm inclined to the "universal" argument.

To use a particular hero: Bach - Roman Catholic, C17th, German... Culturally, socially, spritually, politically, technologically... (all the -ally's you can think of) as far removed from me as anyone could be (in the western world), yet his music stirs me now, 300 years after it was written, just as he intended it.

Mozart, perhaps, even more so, and here we must mention the Japanese who, for example, are almost world leaders in the interpretation of Mozart! How distant a relation is that?

I think the rather interesting colonial expression, "Go, figure!" is appropriate.


As to "what is blues and where is the line between it and rock & roll"

The line is where and what any and all individual(s) you happen to ask will say it is... Or not.



"The Da Vinci Code" is on my list - but only when available in paparback. Although I'm not very impressed by Dan Brown's other stuff, this one intrigued me - but it can wait.

bf
badfinger
Regular
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:51 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby allanlummox » Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:15 pm

Now, Fingo- how far do you think one should go in this wide open acceptance of music?

Have you, in fact, been tasting some of the newer forms- there's a lot of challenging listening out there, but it seems that many simply listen to a few seconds of anything recognizable as Hip Hop and say - "that's not music".

I've been listening to more Rap lately - forcing those ears as far open as I can - and I've discovered that the Rappers I like the most tend to be the nasty, gangtsa sounding ones - Tupac and the like - for the same reason I originally fell for the Blues - it sounds tough and it sounds cool.

Now, these forms of music are based more on an understanding of Rhythmic structures and of Studio techniques - Lee "Scratch" Perry and the other Dubsters are huge influences on Hip Hop - just a totally different way of organising sounds.

None of which diminishes my appreciation for Blues - I largely define myself as a Blues musician, after all. But you can't JUST eat chocolate all day long.
User avatar
allanlummox
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 2843
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Location: Dorset, Vermont

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby badfinger » Thu Dec 18, 2003 6:53 pm

"how far do you think one should go in this wide open acceptance of music?"

Probably not very far. Life's too short. But at least one shouldn't deprive oneself of the opportunity of hearing different things, whether it be Monteverdi or Eminem. (Having said that, I admit to being very much a creature of habit in any things, food in particular...)

(An aside: I often ponder the fame of the (God-knows-why) celebrated Lloyd Webber (yeesh!) - I wonder how much attention he would have attracted had the bulk of his fans been familiar with the far superior works of Gershwin, or Sondheim.... or many others!)


"you can't JUST eat chocolate all day long."

True - you've got to leave some room for cake! And ice cream, and biscuits...

bf
badfinger
Regular
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:51 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby allanlummox » Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:05 pm

Eminem and Weber - gosh, I find I feel similarly about each of them - which is icky.


The fact that we have a limited amount of time has something to do with why so many fine players don't learn notational skills - or studio skills - or how to repair an amplifier (I worked with a guitarist once who was an electrician and who was screptical of any electric guitarist who lacked these skills - and his theory was good, too...)

Music is such a broad subject - every aspect of it opens up an amazing number of possibilities - it's impossible to check out ALL of them.
User avatar
allanlummox
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 2843
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Location: Dorset, Vermont

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby costa » Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:10 pm

>"how far do you think one should go in this wide open
>acceptance of music?"

I collect blues (and rockabilly) records. It's what I like the most. Every now and then, I buy something else, but it's rare (usually country of bluegrass, which as my girlfriend always points out, is just blues by another name). In other words, I don’t go too far in terms of discovering other things, but so what? Nobody asks stamp collectors why they don't collect comics...

And yeah, chocolate every day is fine with me; there are hundreds of different varieties to choose from.

Costa


That's right, sufferin'; just like you're sufferin'. Sufferin' Mind. Here we go now.
User avatar
costa
Regular
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:39 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby allanlummox » Thu Dec 18, 2003 7:17 pm

Nothing wrong with that at all; but I have often seen that people who have deep, narrow musical tastes - Jazz fanatics, Blues purists, people who long for the day when Hair Metal will once again reign supreme - are very critical of those who have broader taste - as if we were somehow disloyal.
User avatar
allanlummox
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 2843
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Location: Dorset, Vermont

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby costa » Thu Dec 18, 2003 8:25 pm

That's true, I do think you are all traitors and infidels, but I like you nonetheless. :)

Costa

That's right, sufferin'; just like you're sufferin'. Sufferin' Mind. Here we go now.
User avatar
costa
Regular
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2003 8:39 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby allanlummox » Thu Dec 18, 2003 9:01 pm

Yaaay!

No, really, you guys are beautiful.
User avatar
allanlummox
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 2843
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Location: Dorset, Vermont

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby badfinger » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:54 pm

I think I've played most mainstream forms of music in my time, for one reason or another, including bagpipes in a pipe band...

And, at times, a helluva lot of playing.

There was a spell when I was leaving work Friday evening and going straight to a BBC studio to record a radio show for later that evening (a "name" 'big band').

Saturday morning was a 50 mile sprint to play in a tv show band, recording for Saturday night broadcast (again big band swing).

Saturday afternoon - same again, different tv company, but a couple of hundred miles this time...

Saturday night was a gig with my own band - usually weddings etc, dance music (ballroom, but also switching from the trumpet, tenor, piano, bass and drums, to a guitar lineup to cover Beatles, Stones, etc.).

After that, it was an all-nighter thru till Sunday morning, playing jazz in one of three places in Manchester.

Sunday morning was brass band practice - lots of ooompah!

Sunday afternoon - symphony orchestra rehearsal, sometimes a concert Sunday night.

Then... Eat, sleep... Work on Monday.

There was other stuff, during the week, where more guitar and violin got played.

Not all those things EVERY weekend, but often enough. Makes me tired just reading it...

bf
badfinger
Regular
 
Posts: 405
Joined: Wed Mar 09, 2005 11:51 pm

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby allanlummox » Thu Dec 18, 2003 10:57 pm

Sounds like fun.
User avatar
allanlummox
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 2843
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Location: Dorset, Vermont

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby cas » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:35 am

Quick thread hijack....Badfinger, can you suggest a cd or 2 of good bagpipe music?? I'd love to have a listen to some.

Ok, back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

Carol
cas
 

RE: tab vs. notation

Postby allanlummox » Fri Dec 19, 2003 5:52 am

Odd - 've been listening to some Scottish country dance music lately - fiddles and such, though, no bagpipes.
User avatar
allanlummox
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 2843
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 1970 12:00 am
Location: Dorset, Vermont

PreviousNext

Return to Talking Blues

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Exabot [Bot] and 1 guest

cron