Blues | Rock - Where's the line?

A discussion of the blues for blues lovers and fans.

RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby mikedev » Wed Sep 18, 2002 6:45 am

I'm joining this thread late, and it's pretty heavy stuff!

My view, for what it's worth, is that music is music. Some I like some I son't. I like some of the things my kids listen to, others I don't. The same goes for them and my music, although I do find it frustrating that I now have my children telling me to turn my music down!

I can still remember the public outcry here in the UK when the Stones hit the headlines in the 60's. Ok they weren't talking about murder and violence(?Street Fighting Man?), but their attitude to drugs was deffinitely anti-establishment. My point is that kids will ALWAYS look for something to shock their parents and teachers. We have made it it harder for our kids by doing what we did in the 60's and 70's.

We had gang wars here between Mods- who were into bands like the Who, and the Rockers who were into bands like the Stones. Not just in London, but up & down the country. you were defined by the music you liked, and the clothes you wore.

I don't see a lot different between then and now.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby houndog » Wed Sep 18, 2002 4:55 pm

Bad men in Rock...!

Elvis was screwing underage girls..Priscilla was 15 when she was allowed to move in with El by her parents.Prosecution...naw.

Jerry Lee marries his underage cousin...prosecution...naw.

Bill Wyman screws 14 year old Mandy with her mother's permission...prosecution..naw.

Chuck Berry transports a girl across a state line...prosecution...yip + jail.

So...what on earth are these black rapper's shouting about...?

adios,
Lovat.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby pikengren » Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:15 pm

Wow. I almost don't even want to touch this one. I like all kinds of music( with the exception of polka , and I only like a few country songs) but I don't care for rap.
But does it take talent? Of course it does. A lot of those guys can improvise a rap over a beat like some of us would improvise a solo over a chord progression. Where they are not singing, and not restricted to a key, they are restricted to rhyme and cadence, and have to be creative with inflections on their words. It is a form of music, and it does take talent to do it.
However, I don't agree with the type of things that it glorifies. Even though I realize that not all rap glorifies killing, infidelity, stealing, raping etc., etc.
Yes there was some negative stuff in a lot of the music I listened to as a kid. And yes most kids are smart enough to realize that it is art.
But it seems that besides this the media( especially television), is not only glorifying these things, but normalizing them. Which I think is far worse. I wonder just how far shock value will go.
Where there is a line not to cross, it might as well be the finish line. I think that there is no talent in shock value alone.
Look at where we are now. Where will we be in another ten or fifteen years? I have children to raise also, and I tell you what, these thoughts scare the hell out of me.
All of these things and many other woes can be explained or traced back to one word, if you really think about it. Greed.

If it wasn't for bad luck,
I wouldn't have no luck at all.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby allanlummox » Wed Sep 18, 2002 8:43 pm

I would think, people would be having similar arguments with Tupac cast as the "safe" classic source.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby hashtaff » Thu Sep 19, 2002 12:14 am

Where do they send all the right wings then? ;)

"This is great, but it's all 12 bars and you can't play 12 bars all night." Bill Wyman at rehearsal when he had just joined the "Greatest Rock Band on Earth"
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby srvlives » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:30 am

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Sep-18-02 AT 10:30 PM (CDT)]>Where do they send all the right wings then? ;)

They're genetically modified. I hear they're working on a bonelss chicken, having a hell of a time getting it to stand up out in the yard though.....

'We told him to stop bothering us because he knew that he couldn't play' Son House (re RJ)
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby hashtaff » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:58 am

They've also developed an eight legged chicken so everyone can have a drumstick. They don't know how they taste tho' cos they haven't caught one yet!
"Blues don't know where you're going,
they don't know where you been.
Looks like blues done got me again "
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby sandy » Thu Sep 19, 2002 11:20 am

[updated:LAST EDITED ON Sep-19-02 AT 07:21 AM (CDT)]There's a Kris Kristofferson line about "People just hate everything that they don't understand" and I'm often guilty of that. I hate rap - but that really means that I don't understand it and it doesn't move me (actually there is a Spearhead album I'm pretty fond of). It doesn't mean that I think that it shouldn't exist. If it is linked with the more unpleasant side of life, it says more about the society that it comes from, not the music. Don't shoot the messenger.

By the way HT, it was Allan Freed, not Alan Freeman. You're betraying your British roots, Pop-picker.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby bosco » Thu Sep 19, 2002 1:36 pm

>Don't shoot the messenger.<

Seems that the messengers do a fair job of shooting themselves.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby allanlummox » Thu Sep 19, 2002 2:27 pm

& lest we forget this "gangsta"...


Cocaine Blues
by Johnny Cash

Early one mornin' while makin' my rounds
I took a shot of cocaine an' I shot my woman down
Went right home an' I went to bed
I stuck that lovin' forty-four beneath my head

Got up next mornin' and I grabbed that gun
Took a shot of cocaine an' away I run
Made a good run but I run too slow
They overtook me down in Juarez Mexico

Layin' in a hot joint takin' the pills
In walks a sherrif from Jericho Hill
He said Willy Lee your name is not Jack Brown
You're the dirty hack that shot your woman down

I said oh yes my name is Willy Lee
If you've got a warrant just read it to me
I shot her down because she made me slow
I thought I was her daddy but she had five more

When I was arrested I was dressed in black
They put me on a train an' they took me back
Had no freinds for to go my bail
They slapped my dried-out carcass in that county jail

Early next mornin' 'bout half-past nine
I spied the sherrif comin' down the line
He hacked an' he coughed as he cleared his throat
C'mon you dirty hack into that district court

Into the courtroom my trial began
Where I was held by twelve honest men
Just before the jury started out
I saw that little judge commence to look about

In about five minutes in walked a man
Holding the verdict in his right hand
The verdict read it in the first degree
I hollered lordy lordy have mercy on my

The judge he smiled as he picked up his pen
99 years in the Folsom pen
99 years underneath that ground
I can't forget the day I shot that bad bitch down

C'mon you gotta listen unto me
Stay off that whisky and let that cocaine be
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby howlnwoof » Thu Sep 19, 2002 3:48 pm

But I don't ever recall hearing about Johnny and his posse ridin' by on a train and putting a slug in Merle Haggards chest ............
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby bosco » Thu Sep 19, 2002 4:12 pm

Like it or not, (where have you read that before?)

You could post lyrics until the end of time showing that historically people have written and sang about murder, crime, abuse, drugs, discrimination and dispair.

But the fact remains...Rap is the only genre that anyone is aware of that has instigated, encouraged, perpetuated and led to the actual homicides of human beings.

"Fact...is stranger than truth!" Grandpa "Gangsta" Jones
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby allanlummox » Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:06 pm

You used the word homicide, not murder...
so theres no semantic dilemma here.

You're Wrong.

People have marched to war to the the sound of the drum for a long time.
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby bosco » Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:51 pm

>You used the word homicide, not murder...
>so theres no semantic dilemma here.

What's that have to do with the price of tomatoes?
I'm not an Attorney but I can read a dictionary. From Webster;

ho-mi-cide; a killing of one human being by another.
mur-der; the crime of unlawfully killing a person.

Murder doesn't always have to be premeditated.
Homicide doesn't always mean it was done with forethought.

Blues vs Rock
Live vs Fake
Talent vs None
Right vs Wrong?

Now who's not willing to substantiate the other's opinion?
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RE: Blues | Rock - Where's the line

Postby allanlummox » Thu Sep 19, 2002 5:55 pm

What exactly were you saying there?
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