Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

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Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby fabulous furry freak » Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Hi, I've just done a recording of guitar and harmonica at the same time, and when i played the recording i noticed a kind of flanger effect with certain combinations of notes. It's not necessarily a bad thing, but is there a way to limit it. It doesn't happen when I record one over the other, though I prefer the spontaneousness of playing both at once.
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Re: Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby barbequebob » Mon Mar 31, 2008 4:24 pm

First of all, please clarify what you mean by the "flanger effect" because the way you decribe it isn't totally clear. However, if you're recording with harp and guitar, it will also depend if you were using a harp tuned to just intonation or a comprimised tuning. Why? With just or comprimised, certain notes are either flattened or sharpened to make the chord played on the harmonicas sound smoother and clearer, but may be somewhat out when played with a guitar, which mainly is tuned equal temeprament, and so you may possibly hearing a "wavering" or "beating" effect that you may be confusing with a flanger sound. There are harps tuned to equal, which would sound fine with guitars, but chords on ET tuned harps will sound harsh and dissodent.
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Re: Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby fabulous furry freak » Mon Mar 31, 2008 6:31 pm

I'm not actually sure how the harmonica is tuned, it sounds fine normally, I only get the "flanger" effect when i play the recording. its one of a (cheap) set, they have "bluesband" inscribed on the top, and "hohner international" on the bottom.

in answer to your question about the flanger effect, its hard to describe, if you've ever heard someone using a wah wah peddle, its similar to that, just very subtle. the only other way I can describe it is the way the exact same note sounds different when played in another place on the fretboard of a guitar, the notes sound a bit lower or higher, even though they are the same.

I'm thinking it could be that the notes are sort of "warped" when another octave is added into the equation, though i don't see why it would only effect the recorded sound :? .
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Re: Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby ricochet » Mon Mar 31, 2008 8:03 pm

What barbequebob is telling you is that harps and guitars are tuned differently. Guitars are tuned according to equal temperament. Harps are typically tuned to a just temperament. A lot of the same notes played on them are slightly different pitches, so when you play them together you'll hear the slow beat frequency. Same principle as the "celeste" stops on an organ, where pairs of pipes are deliberately tuned differently to make that slow vibrato effect. And it's what flanging does, mixing the original signal with one slightly pitch-shifted.
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Re: Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby fabulous furry freak » Mon Mar 31, 2008 10:08 pm

ahhh, gotcha'

though, I still don't see why its only apparent in the recording, maybe i just "zone out" too much to notice it whilst playing, I'll ask some friends if they notice it at all.

Cheers
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Re: Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby barbequebob » Tue Apr 01, 2008 4:59 pm

From personal experience, stuff you don't notice live will always stick out like a sore thumb on a recording session, where things are much more isolated. Back in the mid 80's, when I did a bit of recording as part of the Cambridge Harmonica Orchestrea, using the entire Hohner catolog of harps (diatonics, chords, bass, octave, tremelo, plus accordions and melodicas), some were tuned just and some equal, and so when chords were played, you can hear the wavering big time during the play back.
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Re: Flanger effect when recording with guitar?

Postby ricochet » Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:36 pm

I can't believe how many flaws I hear when I record myself and listen. When I'm playing, I'm hearing in my head what I mean to play, not just what's coming out. The ideal tends to drown out the real.
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